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Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

techinsights.com

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Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#91

Post by jsjohnst »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #9

Only a die-shot, it's disappointing that there's no comment or explanation. But the website advertises: > A DFR report will be available to TechInsights subscribers on Apple's M1 disruptive chip architecture in January 2021. So I assume the actual write-up is still a work-in-progress. Perhaps we just need to be patient and come back a month later.

> Only a die-shot, it's disappointing that there's no comment or explanation.

A die shot that Apple themselves showed at the event. Which has had the same level of annotations previously by Anantech.

Sure, the DFR in early 2021 will be much more detailed, but also expensive to the point 0.001% of HN viewers will actually be able to see it. As such, I think your skepticism of this being worthy of home page billing is not out of line.

For the record, this is not meant to be a dig at TechInsights. I’ve seen a DFR before and they really are good for what they are, it’s just not something most HNers would gain value from, even if it were free.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#92

Post by joakleaf »

Hamuko wrote: post #89
joakleaf wrote: post #73

I wonder what they'll do for "M1X" and pro-machines? Seems like heat isn't an issue, so can they increase the clock-speed of the M1? And will they create a larger die with 2xGPU and 2xCPUs, or will they "stitch" multiple M1 dies together on one package to have a higher yield and reduce supply chain concerns? An M1X with 2xGPU will bring it to Radeon 5500M level which is what I have in my current 16", but still not qu…

Well, the prevailing rumor currently is a processor with 8 high-performance cores (as opposed to the 4 on the M1). I don't know if the amount of high-efficiency cores would also be doubled so that it's like 2xCPU when compared to the M1.

Yes, that's the M1X rumor, but that isn't going to be enough to compete with high-end CPUs in iMac and Mac Pros. For those, we have the 32-core rumor (but that is a massive die).

And doubling the M1-GPU will not be enough to even surpass current Macbook Pro offerings. So they'll also need to do something more on that front.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#93

Post by konschubert »

temac wrote: post #90
murukesh_s wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea it's *the world largest company (by market capitalisation), whose main product is their flagship mobile and whose main differentiator is the CPU (almost everything else is beaten or available in competing products like Camera, number of apps etc). The moment the CPU performance falls below Android devices, people will look at iPhones differently.. iOS is a differentiator but doesn't have the x factor to make iPho…

I suspect for the majority of buyers the differentiator is the logo, then the OS, then maybe the CPU.

The logo alone wears off after a few years.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#94

Post by sradman »

kharak wrote: post #86

Can someone explain to me, what the term "bionic" means in this context? How is the chip derived from nature / natural systems?

Pure speculation: the word bionic means using an artificial body part. The A14 Bionic includes a new Neural Engine for Artificial Intelligence.

EDIT: the name Bionic has been used since the A11 when the Neural Engine was introduced. Fusion introduced big.LITTLE.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#95

Post by jclardy »

murukesh_s wrote: post #83
vnorilo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a device class where the newly all-important perf per watt was always the north star, in a market with the largest chip volume, by a company with ample margins and mountains of cash? Does not seem all that absurd :)

yea it's *the world largest company (by market capitalisation), whose main product is their flagship mobile and whose main differentiator is the CPU (almost everything else is beaten or available in competing products like Camera, number of apps etc). The moment the CPU performance falls below Android devices, people will look at iPhones differently.. iOS is a differentiator but doesn't have the x factor to make iPho…

CPU speeds have been similar to competitors until around the A10 era a few years ago. The real differentiator has always been software + hardware integration happening inside the same company. The hardware team gets the insight of the software team on what areas of performance should be looked at, and the software team can optimize for the exact specifications of a future CPU line.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#96

Post by [deleted] »

murukesh_s wrote: post #83
vnorilo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a device class where the newly all-important perf per watt was always the north star, in a market with the largest chip volume, by a company with ample margins and mountains of cash? Does not seem all that absurd :)

yea it's *the world largest company (by market capitalisation), whose main product is their flagship mobile and whose main differentiator is the CPU (almost everything else is beaten or available in competing products like Camera, number of apps etc). The moment the CPU performance falls below Android devices, people will look at iPhones differently.. iOS is a differentiator but doesn't have the x factor to make iPho…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#97

Post by studius »

sradman wrote: post #94
kharak wrote: post #86

Can someone explain to me, what the term "bionic" means in this context? How is the chip derived from nature / natural systems?

Pure speculation: the word bionic means using an artificial body part. The A14 Bionic includes a new Neural Engine for Artificial Intelligence. EDIT: the name Bionic has been used since the A11 when the Neural Engine was introduced. Fusion introduced big.LITTLE.

Could a genetic algorithm have been partially used in the chip design also?

For example, in the layout to the right of the DDR on the M1, it looks like some significant optimization was done, but only in certain areas.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#98

Post by murukesh_s »

jclardy wrote: post #95
murukesh_s wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea it's *the world largest company (by market capitalisation), whose main product is their flagship mobile and whose main differentiator is the CPU (almost everything else is beaten or available in competing products like Camera, number of apps etc). The moment the CPU performance falls below Android devices, people will look at iPhones differently.. iOS is a differentiator but doesn't have the x factor to make iPho…

CPU speeds have been similar to competitors until around the A10 era a few years ago. The real differentiator has always been software + hardware integration happening inside the same company. The hardware team gets the insight of the software team on what areas of performance should be looked at, and the software team can optimize for the exact specifications of a future CPU line.

i thought Apple crushed other chipset in single core and managed to stay ahead in overall.

https://www.phonearena.com/news/apple-a14-vs-a13-vs-snapdrag....

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#99

Post by bullen »

als0 wrote: post #82
bullen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really like to know where the L1 caches are for proportions!

The L1 caches are part of each CPU itself.

Sure, but what part are the L1... I can se a bunch of similar patterns to the L2/3 caches but I would like someone that knows to draw a border around them!

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Die-Shots

#100

Post by nullify88 »

murukesh_s wrote: post #87
chrisseaton wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But these devices aren’t ‘phones’ any more are they? That’s disingenuous. They’re hugely powerful general purpose computing devices - many people’s primary computing device if you go outside the tech bubble. They do compute intensive tasks like photo manipulation, on-line video editing, grading, and compression, they do face detection, depth estimation, etc etc. I don’t know why people still say ‘wow all this for a t…

its a shame we can't 'dock' em to a larger monitor to do desktop work yet. There are attempts by few players, but if Apple can do that it would be another revolution..

I was pretty excited about Linux on DeX for Samsung devices since it had a capable CPU but unfortunately they discontinued it when Android 10 was released.
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