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Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

leejo.github.io

121–130 of 159 posts

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#121

Airliners suck big time. I'm looking forward for a modern, honest, client-friendly airliner that will force everyone else out of business.

Virgin, if they get investment, strategy, and ambition. In Heathrow, they said more than "hello" to and knew so many vendors and regular workers, and even showed me how to find flights across carriers on their terminal. They were so phreak'n cool.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an Amazon item that didn't show up / got lost by UPS. The process presented by Amazon for this was pretty silly / tedious: 1) Initially, the tracking page said the item is late, maybe lost, if it doesn't arrive by X date (2-3 days after it was due), check back here to initiate a replacement / refund. 2) I went back on X date to arrange a refund. You click the button, initially it takes you to an automated chat…

In my experience I simply search for "contact us" in the Amazon search box (it's not easy to find otherwise) and it brings up a chat bot. I tell it my item never came, and it shows me orders and asks "do you mean this one" until we zero down on what item. Then the bot issues an immediate refund. I use this where tracking says the order has already been delivered (sometimes delivery personnel lie and say they delivere…

I have had that bot say "wait a few days" (after the package had been reported delivered), but yeah, it's generally quick and easy.

(And, fwiw, the already-delivered package did show up in a couple days. They do regularly mark things as delivered before delivering them.)

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#123
post #69

Rather than booking the replacement flight directly the author should have had easyjet rebook him. The author did no-show on the replacement flight provided by easyJet, and all of the griping will get them nowhere. You can’t take things into your own hands and then expect the company to refund you, the company would have provided the free alternative flight (earlier than the one the next day) and the EU fine had they…

Good luck with that. I've found gate agents either to not exist, or the 1-2 of them get completely overwhelemed as an entire flight needs to rebook. Passengers who were only connecting to another final destination add further complexity. Obviously the OP took a risk that the airline wouldn't refund his new flight but the alternative of waiting in a giant line or finding a non-existent agent from a budget carrier to h…

I've found that they are overworked in those cases, but they do the best they can and most people are polite. Though it helps that the last time this happened to me I had a family emergency just before I got on the aborted flight and so they were able to make me happy by getting me on a different airline to a completely different city. small joys like that are all they can ask for.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just go to the nearest gate agent for another flight of the same carrier? I feel like they could point you to the right direction.

Realistically, no. I write this in the gentlest manner possible, not directed solely at you: a lot of the "see a gate agent and they'll sort you" advice seems to be coming from a place of people who either don't travel very much at all, or who travel so much that an airline employee can practically feel their level of Airline Status(tm) from half a kilometer away and will race to their aid. I fall in the third bucket…

Low cost is the key. Normal cost airlines are more friendly. They have the ability to do things that discount airlines don't care to.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#125

cultural quibble. > my partner What per cent of the time is this "romantic, or maybe even life" or "business" partner? When married, the term "spouse" is always preferable. - jgalt's style guide

I think people only say 'partner' when they specifically mean 'romantic not spouse'. I'd say it rarely means 'business partner' these days. People would generally say 'co-founder' or something instead. Are people even technically partners in business anymore? Makes me think of Marley and Scrooge. It generally means 'boyfriend or girlfriend' but over the age of something like 25 when boyfriend or girlfriend starts to…

> I'd say it rarely means 'business partner' these days.

Definitely not the case for professional firms such as management consultancies, accountants, and law firms.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#126
Slightly different but similarly annoying situation happened to me. Was flying back from Birmingham to Berlin, via Dusseldorf (with Eurowings, booked via Lufthansa). There was bad weather at Dusseldorf so the outgoing flight was delayed by an hour or so. Knowing that any passenger arriving at Dusseldorf would arrive at ~8:30pm, and thus miss their connecting flights for the day - they still insisted on people flying there. We arrived, and were stranded - obviously. Their agents closed the booth and tried to leave, but after a bunch of discussion they then wanted to put people on buses or trains to various parts of Germany overnight. A few of us demanded accommodation and ended up staying in the nearby hotel. After like 10 emails back and forth over the next week with the airline they ended up refusing to pay compensation, so I raised a claim with the consumer arbitration board in the country I live (soep-online.de). Two days later I get an email from the airline saying they'll pay out. It seems so utterly scummy that they try lie and deceive consumers out of their rights - how are there not strict punishments in situations where airlines mislead and screw over consumers?

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people only say 'partner' when they specifically mean 'romantic not spouse'. I'd say it rarely means 'business partner' these days. People would generally say 'co-founder' or something instead. Are people even technically partners in business anymore? Makes me think of Marley and Scrooge. It generally means 'boyfriend or girlfriend' but over the age of something like 25 when boyfriend or girlfriend starts to…

> I'd say it rarely means 'business partner' these days. Definitely not the case for professional firms such as management consultancies, accountants, and law firms.

I think you're thinking of those people saying 'a partner' as in 'she's a partner.' I've literally never heard anyone say she's 'my partner' expecting me to understand that she's also a partner in the same firm as them.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#128
The legitimacy of governments and of courts is primarily by belief - eg the courts are legitimate because most people believe that they are. There seem to be a lot of people out there who don’t understand this concept and don’t understand that western societies are not immune to mass unrest or violence or even insurrection. In particular it seems like courts and legislatures are failing at their most basic tasks in many western countries. I hope that in Europe that the legislatures or the courts intervene precipitously in these kinds of widespread fraud by corporations; a few executives going to jail as an example to others would quickly correct the situation. Otherwise this eats away at the credibility of the government in general and you just see more lawlessness.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#129

Probably just whoever was reading the paperwork on the day. That's an unfortunate turnout for the poster. I've had exactly the same experience but different departure airport and won (flight didn't go, I bought am immediate replacement seat myself, didn't use the one that was reassigned to me so I could get there faster). I use https://refund.me , excellent success rate and very little effort. It would be amazing to…

> refund.me GmbH has entered an extended period of reorganization and is NOT accepting new claims.

Seems like they too have thrown in the towel.

Re: Lawyers automate this, so why don't airlines?

#130
post #7

Long story short: Guy had flight canceled and wants airlines to have automated refund system. The issue is though that no company I know of really wants an automated easy path to disperse money back to the public. Ever try to collect on an insurance policy?

The UK has a near-universal policy for refunds on cancelled or delayed train services ("delay repay"). Several train operating companies issue these refunds automatically for tickets booked directly with them, and others will automatically notify the customer that they are entitled to claim. I think some companies have taken the view that reducing the amount of administrative overhead for both themselves and passenge…

For Delay Repay you'll get the same sort of nonsense this post is about from travellers whose expectations don't match reality.

A train ticket from A to B is a contract to arrange travel for you from A to B. If it proves impossible to fulfil the contracted travel on time, it'll be re-arranged and you get compensation for your trouble under Delay Repay.

But the exact same sort of person will buy a ticket from A to B, another from B to C, and one from C to D. Then upon hearing, while waiting at A, that the B-C train is affected by a delay, they book tickets from Z-D and take a taxi to Z to catch that train. Then they're very angry that the train operator wants to compensate them only for the delay on the short B-C journey, rather than pay for their taxi and Z-D ticket.

But the B-C journey operator has absolutely no reason to know you wanted to leave from A or travel to D. You've confused your goal with the quite different contractual arrangement you made.

An A-D ticket might perhaps cost more than your assortment of A-B, B-C, C-D tickets, but that ticket does come with the promise to actually get you from A to D like you wanted, if it's so important that you'd arrange an alternate method to get there, just buy the more expensive ticket that does what you actually wanted and don't act as though the operating companies should read your mind.

Story time:

Some time ago now, I was making a routine journey up the country, I had purchased my ticket which would have me arrive in my destination city about 2300 or so, fifteen minutes walk from my hotel, via London and I set off on time late afternoon. Unfortunately there was a one-under (ie most likely somebody committed suicide, though that's a matter to be decided much later, at the moment it happens they're just a person who is under a train for some reason, the power needs to go off and the lines must be closed while somebody sorts that out) just ahead of us, delaying us by an hour into London. But because the operating companies are responsible for the end-to-end journey I wasn't bothered. I crossed London and arrived far too late for my connection of course, but again the operating companies are responsible for the end-to-end journey and they boarded me onto a later train. This train was scheduled around overnight engineering work so although it was the same physical type of train and the same route as usual, it took about two hours longer, and it would not reach my final destination. Instead it would arrive at about 0150 on the outskirts of an airport some distance away and terminate. The remainder of the railway was closed overnight, and I would travel by road.

Now, I imagine that planners for the operating company concluded that almost all travellers do not want to go to an airport at 0150 or take a coach across country to their real destination afterwards. So they had assumed that this last train of the night would be empty or nearly empty when it finally arrived at the airport. So although they were obliged to arrange onward transit they hadn't bothered.

But because of the one-under there was dozens of us on this last train. At its final calling point was one confused employee. He's expecting maybe one tired person gets off the train, he apologises for lack of onward transit, if he's lucky the person says they'll sort it out because their actual destination is nowhere near a station anyway, otherwise he gets a cab and goes home. Instead he's facing a crowd of dozens. He's going go need at least one coach, to the city they were originally expecting to arrive at three hours ago. He calls his bosses. There are no coaches. Then he telephones every taxi firm in the city, and fleets of taxis begin arriving. Instead of taking people to the railway station they had tickets to, the taxi drivers see it as much simpler to take them wherever they are going directly - the train company picks up the tab either way. So I checked in to my hotel about twenty minutes later.

What's key here is that the expectation of the supplier is correctly aligned to my goal. I wanted to travel to my destination, they wanted to deliver me to that destination. When things went wrong, we both remained clear on the goal and so the resolution was satisfactory.

A late night taxi for each train passenger is obviously horribly expensive and they lost money on that deal. But if I'd gone off piste and tried to get there by some other method from London even if it was cheaper they're under no obligation to compensate me for that, the deal was they get me to the agreed destination.

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