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Trading Time for Money

nicolasbouliane.com

61–70 of 159 posts

Re: Trading Time for Money

#61
The only correct points in here are 3 and 4 but they’re said in a really roundabout way.

You don’t sell “time” for money. You sell labor. To do that you need a buyer. Most buyers purchase in bulk, and in many fields, want “requirements agreements”—you’ll produce as much as we need. Selling a little bit of labor power is often like trying to sell one bean. Doesn’t work that way.

That’s all you need.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#62

So roughly, the author is saying something like: if ( outsourcing_cost * alpha > opportunity_cost ) { outsource(); } and discusses how that alpha should be calculated. The author also mentions some side benefits of doing some tasks and getting better at them. Does HN have any thoughts about living a smaller life by doing fewer things and having more time to just live and enjoy life? If spending time figuring out how…

>"Does HN have any thoughts about living a smaller life by doing fewer things and having more time to just live and enjoy life?"

I heartily recommend it.

Get off the "keeping up with the Joneses" carousel, reduce your living expenses and enjoy both having your money stretch much further as well as building up savings. I invest a sustainable amount of my monthly income into climate-friendly mutual funds, as I expect climate change to drive massive innovation in that field. I do not invest in any other segments, for moral reasons.

We prefer to live a frugal life and try to avoid buying unnecessary things. In our current living situation, we are lucky enough to not need a car on a daily basis (bicycles and public transit work great here), so we've joined a nonprofit car sharing service (dedicated cars, not people's personal cars) for the occasions where we do have to go outside of practical public transit reach.

In general, we try to buy second hand when possible and repair our things ourselves. Most of my clothes have one or another kind of fix or slight modification at this point, aside from t-shirts, which are just hopeless in that regard. Men's shirts take repairs so much better. One thing you learn quickly is that tightly-fitting clothes wear our a lot quicker, especially those with elastic fibers added. Looser-fitting clothes last significantly longer. Tightly-fitting synthetic athletic wear does last pretty well (probably due to the reduced friction), but we are trying to avoid synthetic fibers.

It also becomes a hobby in its own right, as I'm writing this I'm adding suspender buttons to some nice thick cotton twill pants that I found recently, because it beats the hell out of belts for comfort. It's hard to find anything but dress pants with suspender buttons these days and clip suspenders chew up the waistband.

On the occasions where we do have to buy something brand new, we try to find the locally (Europe, in our case) produced products, both for the environmental impact and for the worker protections factor. Organic and sustainable production is something we prefer to seek out, as well.

It's not hard to live frugally and you don't have to take it to extremes, if you don't want to. Just learning to repair things instead of throwing away and buying new, is a great first step.

I recognize that we are privileged in that we can actually choose to live like this and have the services around us that make it practical, but I think most people would feel a lot less stressed if they slowed down and lived in a more frugal fashion.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#63

So roughly, the author is saying something like: if ( outsourcing_cost * alpha > opportunity_cost ) { outsource(); } and discusses how that alpha should be calculated. The author also mentions some side benefits of doing some tasks and getting better at them. Does HN have any thoughts about living a smaller life by doing fewer things and having more time to just live and enjoy life? If spending time figuring out how…

Also taxes return value to an individual - infrastructure, education, healthcare, etcetera.

Rating the personal benefits you get from government at $0 usually means you are freeloading IMHO.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a sample of people on “basic income”: they are on unemployment benefits (or similar.) I am unsure I see any correlation with higher output of culture, art, religion etcetera from those on benefits, even though they may have under-the-table income for necessary tools and consumables. They often do spend more time on family and friends though.

The effects of society-wide basic income will be significantly different than just a small subsection of unemployed people. Especially when it comes to social acceptability.

Sure. But social acceptability should have little multiplier effect on the other benefits you listed e.g. artistic output (unemployed/beneficiary artists are already socially acceptable, in my circles at least).

Re: Trading Time for Money

#65
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effects of society-wide basic income will be significantly different than just a small subsection of unemployed people. Especially when it comes to social acceptability.

Sure. But social acceptability should have little multiplier effect on the other benefits you listed e.g. artistic output (unemployed/beneficiary artists are already socially acceptable, in my circles at least).

Right, but the point is that this will change the whole system.

How many talented artists decided to become stockbrokers instead, simply because they wanted financial stability? Or how many parents encourage their children to follow something "practical" and not what they are truly passionate about? Or academics that love their subject, but don't want to bother with the hassle of adjunct positions and constant relocation. Etc.

A basic income would dramatically affect these sort of situations, IMO.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#66

Analyses like this just make me think Basic Income will radically shake up civilization more than most people realize. In particular, it will help divorce this ubiquitous cultural association between time and money. This reason alone may explain some of the hostility toward implementing even a rudimentary form of UBI. Some of the most rewarding human experiences have zero financial value and subsequently are dismisse…

I sincerely doubt that basic income will make us all Victorian-era gentleman scientists and patrons of the arts. I agree with the premise that culture comes from leisure, but realistically, if you give everyone a fixed amount of money, won't the cost of things just rise accordingly?

Instead of giving people free money, wouldn't it make more sense to heavily subsidise the basics? Is there any indication that UBI would work better than guaranteeing affordable food, housing and healthcare?

Re: Trading Time for Money

#67

When you do it yourself, you have the ability to ensure it is done right. When you pay someone else, they,re bound to cut corners as soon as you turn your head. The choice is obvious to me.

Professionals cut corners to cut costs. I accidentally chop them off because I'm tired and incompetent.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it,s true, most jobs involve wasting our resources on pointless shit we don,t need.

Why do you get to decide what’s on the approved list of the things that we need? I ate 2 extra toast with dark chocolate peanut butter today. Certainly didn’t need it but eh it’s the holidays. Where does that fall on your morality chart? Is it the re-education gulag for me?

i,m just saying that majority of jobs are non-essential, and if your extra toast didnt exist, and all the people and animals and plants who brought it into existence were doing something else instead, we,d be bettet off, not worse.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to make lots of money working on cmbs and advertising for oil mining. I spent my money on many a plastic bullshit. Now I make nothing writing foss and live off donations. I rarely encourage plastic manufacturing. Which is better for our society and the biome? I argue it is the latter.

Well that’s on you brother. I like what I do and I like that I take responsibility for my life and that I am not handed anything.

but you ARE handed everything that you have, the idea that you ,,earned it,, is an illusion based on ignoring all the good fortune and gifts which have been rained on you, just like on me. otherwise you wouldn,t be in the position to comment on this board.

Re: Trading Time for Money

#70
post #67

When you do it yourself, you have the ability to ensure it is done right. When you pay someone else, they,re bound to cut corners as soon as you turn your head. The choice is obvious to me.

Professionals cut corners to cut costs. I accidentally chop them off because I'm tired and incompetent.

tired because you have traded away your sleeping time for money?
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