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The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

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Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good idea actually, I’m using 2 PCs with one monitor over USB-c. The monitor takes more than 10 key presses through a horrific on screen menu to change input sources. I didn’t even think of swapping the cable!

> The monitor takes more than 10 key presses through a horrific on screen menu to change input sources This sounds like a job for Autohotkey or a similar automation tool. It's worth learning something like this on your platform.

I can’t change the input from a pc, only using buttons on the monitor itself. Using i2c over display port is possible to change input source but I don’t really have the will to spend time on trying it.

Incidentally, I was asked to uninstall autohotkey from my work PC because some corporate spyware detected it as a threat.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#202
post #11

Something I highly recommend avoiding (though it may look tempting) is the TB16 thunderbolt dock from dell. There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning. It also has the…

That's a bummer to hear; I have the WD15 dock through work and it's been excellent; I have a bunch of complaints about the XPS itself (power management, for example), but that dock has been great.

I have the WD15 connected to a 2016 MacBook Pro and it is incredibly unreliable. USB devices stop working randomly (mouse+keyboard), ethernet comes and goes as it pleases and the display output works for one month before stops working all together. The only thing that works reliably is power supply.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#203
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DisplayPort supports MST to drive multiple monitors from a single output. Your displays may support this already. If not you can get a relatively cheap hub. Here are some: https://www.monoprice.com/search/index?keyword=displayport+m... I have a CalDigit and a KVM switch to support a desktop and laptop. The setup works just fine with one DP out from the CalDigit, one DP out from the KVM, and an MST hub driving two 144…

If I'm following this correctly, you have 3 devices (dock, kvm, mst hub) in between your computer and the monitors... what's the latency like? I personally just refuse (out of principle) to plug a hub into a hub, why am I buying two devices when they could and should be one?

I haven't measured latency, but there's nothing noticeable in my day to day experience, which includes gaming as well.

The desktop only goes through the KVM and the MST hub. The laptop additionally goes through a dock. I don't consider the devices to have the same purpose at all.

The dock serves several purposes for me:

1. Single cable to manage when taking or bringing the laptop (just one Thunderbolt carries all signals and power).

2. USB hub, as my laptop only has two USB ports.

3. Wired ethernet for the laptop.

4. Cable management - everything else plugging into the dock (audio, DP, ethernet, several other peripherals I use for day job).

The KVM is a switch and serves a different, specific purpose:

5. As it says in the name, switch inputs and outputs across multiple machines.

And the MST hub serves yet another purpose.

6. Allow one DP out to carry signal for multiple monitors.

There are KVMs that can act as an MST hub, but I wouldn't expect any latency difference there. It's still performing the action of presenting two displays to a single DP output. There are also monitors that support MST. Those monitors were much more expensive than mine when I was purchasing. The MST hub was a cheaper option for me than either getting a new monitor or getting a KVM that included such functionality.

Whether MST goes through an embedded hub in a KVM, or through an external hub, or through an embedded hub in a monitor, I'm not sure I see where any configuration would win on latency. They all need to do the same thing.

The thunderbolt dock also serves a different purpose than the KVM.

My laptop has decent connectivity - onboard ethernet, 2xUSB-A, 1xUSB-C/Thunderbolt, power. I would need a USB hub. So I could definitely plug in all of the cables every time I bring my laptop to my desk. I prefer not to. The Thunderbolt dock allows me to tuck away all of those extra cables and just run one to my laptop. Additionally it lets me keep the charging brick packed in my laptop bag. If I didn't have a dock, I'd have bought another charging brick.

My desktop has more connectivity than I can use, but it doesn't have Thunderbolt. It doesn't need thunderbolt. And I don't want to spend money or space for a PCIe Thunderbolt card that I do not need. And I didn't have any need for Thunderbolt or a KVM when I built my desktop.

There may be a thunderbolt KVM, but I didn't come across them. But I'd need to buy other hardware for my desktop. Or I'd have to find a KVM that can switch between a thunderbolt input and a DisplayPort/USB/Audio input. Such a device, if it exists would likely be quite expensive.

I don't know of any KVMs that also provide ethernet, nor do I want to switch ethernet among my computers in the manner that a KVM switches. So I'd still need to run multiple cables to my laptop whenever it comes to the desk.

So, our setups may be different, but I need all of the functionality I described above. I haven't found any single box that will do it all. I am perfectly happy to build a solution as I've described out of multiple components. And I will continue to get value out of each component, even as my setup changes.

The MST hub is great, because I can run one cable to the back of my monitor from any DP device and have a two-monitor setup. This is sticking around regardless of the rest.

The KVM will have use as long as I have multiple computers.

The dock will be valuable as long as I have a laptop with a thunderbolt port.

A hypothetical dual thunderbolt KVM with MST is more limited than the current setup. Its only potential benefit is some desk space, but even this can be managed just fine. The dock is on its way to mounting behind the desk.

As for system latency, my understanding is that the only additional latency from the KVM should be in USB peripherals, as it does serve as a USB hub. The audio and video signals are passed straight through so far as I know.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#204
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not going to be just an adapter because you'll need a beefy power supply with PCIe power outlets as well (modern cards pull up to 400W of power). This is why mostly you get a box to house all that.

Yes, I know and I already have a beefy enough power supply. I just want that adapter. So is there any cable or not? If yes, where can I buy it?

No, there's hardware components involved, I guess to translate whatever comes out at PCI e to whatever usb c expects.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had two jobs both government (not US) those WDx docks are terrible. The connector is a two inch lever just waiting for something to break it off.

Personally I disagree, I love my WD19TB. It's hooked up to all my peripherals and monitor, and until a proper TB3 KVM comes into existence, I plug it into my laptop or desktop as needed. Nice to be able to swap a single plug and get full speed everything.

I'm referring to the sheer volume of calls I got to replace or update or reset the docks. It was probably in the top three of calls I would get maybe even #1.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#206
post #2

I just also started looking into Thunderbolt 3 docks after only getting 4k30hz. $400+ CAD is so much though! Im curious if anyone here has recommendations

If you don't already have the 4k monitors, just get one with a thunderbolt input/output. A slightly more expensive dell monitor with good thunderbolt/usb-c support basically replaced my $300 dock, and it only cost about $100 more than the cheaper 4K monitors. Mine takes thunderbolt input, provides one usb-c port, and 4 usb-3 ports. Daisy chaining is supported, but note that you can't run 2 4k@60hz monitors with perip…

4k@60 is ~16 Gbps per 4k@60 display over DP; USB3 is happy with 5 Gbps; 10 Gbps is USB3.1.

There were TB2 docks (i.e. 20 gbps total) that were able to handle one 4k@60 display, 1 gbps ethernet and usb3. I'm using such one (Kanex TB2 Express) with 2015 mbp.

-- On PC side, thunderbolt is handled by firmware, operating system has on say on it, it just sees devices pop on pcie bus (on Apple side, it is by Apple-supplied drivers). So the handling should be same for Windows and Linux. One of the few things it can do is configure security policies for TB3+.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#207

Took me a while to find out that just because my Thinkpad Notebook supports DisplayPort 1.2 and has Thunderbolt, it does not mean I can actually use the specified resolutions with the Thinkpad USB-C Dock Gen 2. For reference, DisplayPort 1.2 supports 4k60Hz according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_... But when I look into the User Guide of the ThinkPad USB-C Dock Gen 2, the…

Generally usb-c docks can do 4k@30 but to get 60 you need a (any) thunderbolt dock. The TB port on the laptop can do 60 but you need a TB dock and not a USBC dock otherwise that would be the bottleneck. However if you just need video and not extra USB ports / Ethernet / etc., then a USB-C to DP adapter can do 60fps since it doesn't need to reserve bandwidth for the other stuff.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#208
post #50
post #11

Something I highly recommend avoiding (though it may look tempting) is the TB16 thunderbolt dock from dell. There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning. It also has the…

Hold on! Is this why ethernet is exhibiting intermittent and impossible to diagnose behavior for me at work, and only for me?! Do you have some more information?

What is typically called ‘ethernet’ is actually a family of interrelated protocols. Correct implementations are costly since they require quality components and fine-tuning between hardware, firmware, and software levels.

Most consumer products just use generic components that some factory negotiators were willing to offload for cheap. The high end products with megabucks contracts are the ones capable of hitting guaranteed reliability targets.

Apple, like for most other components, is the only big consumer brand that consistently uses something better than whatever was cheapest in Shenzhen. Even business oriented brands, like Western Digital, Brother, etc., have been cutting costs in these areas recently for their cheapest lines. Boutique smaller brands like CalDigit, Lacie, etc., who justify their premium pricing with quality, also usually puts effort into doing it correctly.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#209
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One very major difference is, Thunderbolt's spec requires that this cable carry 100W of power in addition to the 40Gbps of bandwidth.

Power over Ethernet is not too far from 100W. Maybe around 70, if I can recall correctly. So the power isn’t the biggest factor I think

Nope. Standard PoE is 15.4 watts.

Re: The beautiful Silent ThunderBolt-3 PC

#210
post #137
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support a LOT of Thunderbolt docks for clients in my IT work and have also had experience with a lot of them personally. My feedback is, almost all of these docks really suck. Spend the money and get a CalDigit. You won't regret it. It's the only one I've found that reliably performs the way a dock should.

issue with caldigit is that it only has one dp out, wd19 has 2, and an hdmi. my optimal dock would have/support: 3 video out (dp, hdmi, etc) 5+ usb-a (2.0 is fine) 2+ usb-c (3.2 preferred) gigEth

You're forgetting, perhaps, that the CalDigit also has a real Thunderbolt 3 out. Which, by itself, can easily support multiple monitors.

The CalDigit also has a crapload of USB-A and USB-C ports. Try it out. You'll like it.

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