Earlier quoted context omitted.
You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. I would rather you pay more and pay the full costs of your electrical use. Use solar, wind or invest in a nuclear plant if removing carbon is imported. Causing extinction in the name of climate change when really it's about cheaper prices…
> You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. No, I've done a fair amount of research into the historical climate of the PNW and I've never heard that before! Do you have any journal articles so I can read more about it?
Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
31–40 of 72 posts
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fish are amazing, but do you really think they are SMART? In my experience, fish are incredibly stupid and wholly reliant on instinct. I suppose instincts can seem like intelligence sometimes, but if put into the wrong situation, fish will make the same mistake over and over and over again.
By that standard the monarch butterfly is stupid too. That said they are smart enough to follow only a portion of their full migratory route which takes 4 generations to complete. Squirrels remember where they bury their nuts. Octopuses can solve puzzles. So what about fish? Salmon remember where they were spawned before they head out to the ocean, and come back to the exact same pool to spawn before dying. https://b…
I'll settle this;
Salmon, butterflies and squirrels are all dumb as hell.
What they are is incredibly well adapted to reproduce and survive on this crazy planet!
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
We must learn to live with hydro power and dams. It’s such an incredible and clean source of energy. It’s low maintenance and has a high duty cycle, with only nuclear being a more consistent. Dams are also how many parts of the US irrigate crops for our food.
In Idaho we have Red Fish Lake, named after the sockeye salmon that would congregate there, often turning the lake red due to their numbers. In 2019, only 18 salmon returned to the lake. Further 4 dams in the Snake River are not used for hydro power, nor are they for flood control. They were used to try to make Idaho a major sea port -- despite the fact that Idaho is several hundred files from the ocean. https://disc…
Chop down 98% of american indigenous forests to make room for homes, drain all the wetlands in socal for gold miners. But all no we can't have clean power cus of some fishis that my tribe that originally owned that land didn't even care about.
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. I would rather you pay more and pay the full costs of your electrical use. Use solar, wind or invest in a nuclear plant if removing carbon is imported. Causing extinction in the name of climate change when really it's about cheaper prices…
> You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will. Interesting. Do you have a source for this?
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#35Hydro is a double edged sword. Washington produces 70% of its energy from clean hydro, and supplies almost a quarter of the nation’s hydro power. Nothing is free.
Also provides a fantastic balancing reserve for all the wind and solar generation in the region. Downstream survival rates for juvenile fish are in the high 90s for all the dams on the lower Columbia. [1] Grand Coulee produces more energy than any hydro project in North America so I expect it's worth keeping around even if we have to make some modifications to improve survival rates on the upper Columbia. [1] https:/…
Survival rates are high going downstream, can the salmon get back upstream or are there no fish ladders past some point?
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Idaho we have Red Fish Lake, named after the sockeye salmon that would congregate there, often turning the lake red due to their numbers. In 2019, only 18 salmon returned to the lake. Further 4 dams in the Snake River are not used for hydro power, nor are they for flood control. They were used to try to make Idaho a major sea port -- despite the fact that Idaho is several hundred files from the ocean. https://disc…
Chop down 98% of american indigenous forests to make room for homes, drain all the wetlands in socal for gold miners. But all no we can't have clean power cus of some fishis that my tribe that originally owned that land didn't even care about.
We have programs for both reforestation and for wetland preservation. With any conservation proposal, one must weigh the pros and cons.
In this case it is true that hydropower is cheap and clean. However, the negative externality of destroying the salmon run is much more than "some fishis" that some Indian tribes cared about.
Aboriginal annual salmon catches have been estimated at over 10 million pounds for year. On top of that, the migration of pacific salmon upriver represents an enormous transfer of nutrients upstream. Salmon are a keystone species and are vitally important for the health of forests.
Unfortunately, the salmon run cannot easily coexist with the dams. Yes, there is value in the hydropower. Yes, it is cheap, clean energy. But it is certainly not without cost. We could be reaping the benefits of one of the largest animal migrations on our planet in a sustainable way. Even disregarding the cultural importance to native peoples there is still enormous economic and ecological value in having a healthy salmon run.
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. No, I've done a fair amount of research into the historical climate of the PNW and I've never heard that before! Do you have any journal articles so I can read more about it?
Of course: https://www.history.org.uk/primary/resource/3865/anglo-saxon...
By “the temp” do you mean the global temp? Here’s a paper about this:
https://boris.unibe.ch/132301/7/333323_4_merged_1557735881.p...
The phenomenon you’re referring to seems to be regional, in contrast to global warming. Global warming has plenty of regional variation, but the average temperature of the whole planet is, in fact, increasing quite a bit.
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#38Pretty sure this is the first time I've seen my hometown newspaper on HN. Neat. My brother works in Bellingham WA doing Salmon related research stuff.
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#39Pretty sure this is the first time I've seen my hometown newspaper on HN. Neat. My brother works in Bellingham WA doing Salmon related research stuff.
Was going to say the same - can’t remember seeing spokesman.com here before.
Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years
#40Pretty sure this is the first time I've seen my hometown newspaper on HN. Neat. My brother works in Bellingham WA doing Salmon related research stuff.
Was going to say the same - can’t remember seeing spokesman.com here before.
If you click on the URL in parentheses next to the title you'll see previous submissions for that site