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Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

spokesman.com

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#11
post #3

I grew up in a small town in the PNW that has a yearly salmon festival, and it wasn't until a post from HN[1] that I learned/realized that the whole system of "fish hatcheries" that my town celebrated is kind of a horrible bandaid over the ecological disaster we perpetrated. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21298472 , definitely worth a read if you care about salmon

Leavenworth? Also cool work history/projects from your website

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#12

It's nice and all, but it is unlikely to lead to a returning salmon population. Even if the spawn make it through the dams, they won't be able to come back when they reach spawning age. They need to invest tons of money in salmon ladders and naturalization, for example, like we are doing in BC. That would be quite the project for the Grand Coulee dam, as I remember it being quite large. Hopefully this is the first st…

If native populations are going to come back and be sustainable we have to tear down the damns. I realize that causes other political issues but that's the only way we're going to have native populations. I'm an avid fisherman and really LOVE fish. They're amazing animals. Fisherman have a connection to nature that just can't be appreciated unless you have spent significant time on the water. Fish are SMART, they're…

Many large dams play a major role in flood mitigation so removing them can be a significant risk. IMO, traditional fish ladders are often a poor solution as they don’t divert enough water down them, but scale things to 10+% of average flow rates, and dams can coexist with large native fish populations. Notably discharge rates that high significantly reduce the amount of hydropower generated, but don’t need to be maintained year round.

However, most small and mid sized dams should be removed as they harm wildlife and are often a safety issue for the general public.

PS: In terms of supporting evidence. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092585741...

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#13
I was raised in a small german village near the rhine. which also has a big project to reintroduce salmon: https://www.salmoncomeback.org/ and https://www.iksr.org/en/icpr/rhine-2020/salmon-2020 as far as I know salmon was back since 2016 in these regions which was a huge breaktrough.

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#14

Readers may also find this review of methods of building salmon-friendly dams interesting: https://spo.nmfs.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/pdf-content/mf...

We must learn to live with hydro power and dams. It’s such an incredible and clean source of energy. It’s low maintenance and has a high duty cycle, with only nuclear being a more consistent. Dams are also how many parts of the US irrigate crops for our food.

In Idaho we have Red Fish Lake, named after the sockeye salmon that would congregate there, often turning the lake red due to their numbers.

In 2019, only 18 salmon returned to the lake.

Further 4 dams in the Snake River are not used for hydro power, nor are they for flood control. They were used to try to make Idaho a major sea port -- despite the fact that Idaho is several hundred files from the ocean.

https://discoversawtooth.org/what-happened-to-the-red-fish-o...

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#15

Hydro is a double edged sword. Washington produces 70% of its energy from clean hydro, and supplies almost a quarter of the nation’s hydro power. Nothing is free.

Also provides a fantastic balancing reserve for all the wind and solar generation in the region.

Downstream survival rates for juvenile fish are in the high 90s for all the dams on the lower Columbia. [1] Grand Coulee produces more energy than any hydro project in North America so I expect it's worth keeping around even if we have to make some modifications to improve survival rates on the upper Columbia.

[1] https://www.bpa.gov/news/pubs/FactSheets/fs-201306-Columbia-...

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#16

It's nice and all, but it is unlikely to lead to a returning salmon population. Even if the spawn make it through the dams, they won't be able to come back when they reach spawning age. They need to invest tons of money in salmon ladders and naturalization, for example, like we are doing in BC. That would be quite the project for the Grand Coulee dam, as I remember it being quite large. Hopefully this is the first st…

[deleted]

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#17

It's nice and all, but it is unlikely to lead to a returning salmon population. Even if the spawn make it through the dams, they won't be able to come back when they reach spawning age. They need to invest tons of money in salmon ladders and naturalization, for example, like we are doing in BC. That would be quite the project for the Grand Coulee dam, as I remember it being quite large. Hopefully this is the first st…

We don't need to make such a large investment. I, for one, am satisfied with the ecology today and would rather have lower electricity rates and get people into electric cars and off gas heat.

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#18

It's nice and all, but it is unlikely to lead to a returning salmon population. Even if the spawn make it through the dams, they won't be able to come back when they reach spawning age. They need to invest tons of money in salmon ladders and naturalization, for example, like we are doing in BC. That would be quite the project for the Grand Coulee dam, as I remember it being quite large. Hopefully this is the first st…

If native populations are going to come back and be sustainable we have to tear down the damns. I realize that causes other political issues but that's the only way we're going to have native populations. I'm an avid fisherman and really LOVE fish. They're amazing animals. Fisherman have a connection to nature that just can't be appreciated unless you have spent significant time on the water. Fish are SMART, they're…

Honestly, if the choice is removing the dams and moving to more polluting energy forms, or letting the fish go extinct, I think letting the fish go extinct is the best choice at this time. Maybe we freeze their fertilized eggs and reintroduce them at some point in the future when climate change has been reversed.

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#19
post #17

It's nice and all, but it is unlikely to lead to a returning salmon population. Even if the spawn make it through the dams, they won't be able to come back when they reach spawning age. They need to invest tons of money in salmon ladders and naturalization, for example, like we are doing in BC. That would be quite the project for the Grand Coulee dam, as I remember it being quite large. Hopefully this is the first st…

We don't need to make such a large investment. I, for one, am satisfied with the ecology today and would rather have lower electricity rates and get people into electric cars and off gas heat.

Well maybe someone would like a salmon-related job, and the project would pay for itself - it is one of those infrastructure cases where those that build the improvement createna benefit for someone else

Re: Salmon spawning in the upper Columbia River, first in 80 years

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If native populations are going to come back and be sustainable we have to tear down the damns. I realize that causes other political issues but that's the only way we're going to have native populations. I'm an avid fisherman and really LOVE fish. They're amazing animals. Fisherman have a connection to nature that just can't be appreciated unless you have spent significant time on the water. Fish are SMART, they're…

Honestly, if the choice is removing the dams and moving to more polluting energy forms, or letting the fish go extinct, I think letting the fish go extinct is the best choice at this time. Maybe we freeze their fertilized eggs and reintroduce them at some point in the future when climate change has been reversed.

You realize in 600ad the temp was a 1 hotter than today. There is no maybe we reintroduce at a later time because whatever you think needs to happen with climate change never will.

I would rather you pay more and pay the full costs of your electrical use. Use solar, wind or invest in a nuclear plant if removing carbon is imported.

Causing extinction in the name of climate change when really it's about cheaper prices is a non-starter.

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