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I am lonely will anyone speak to me

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Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#121

Post by apatters »

colmvp wrote: post #44
DoreenMichele wrote: post #37

I've studied social/psychological stuff, spent a lot of years suicidal and spent a number of years homeless which was incredibly socially isolating and even negatively impacted how people interacted with me online. Some thoughts (intended as a buffet to choose from if it strikes your fancy, not a prescription for "the right way" to do anything at all): 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are despe…

> 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are desperate and lonely and your life is in the toilet. Once in a great while, someone will be truly wonderful to you because you did that but it's usually counterproductive. I met up with a close friend a few days ago to lament how tough its been to live alone throughout this Covid period, to get rejected by dozens of companies while job hunting, and to do o…

> 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are desperate and lonely and your life is in the toilet. Once in a great while, someone will be truly wonderful to you because you did that but it's usually counterproductive.

> 3. Signaling desperation attracts predators far more often than it attracts real friends.

Yep, these are excellent and hugely valuable life lessons. There is a real and common tendency among humans to react to negativity by either running away or moving in for the kill.

On the surface this is a depressing realization, as you get older you come to understand that nobody really gives a fuck (maybe a handful of people do if you're lucky, but I'm convinced that many don't even know how to care about someone else). Most relationships are only skin deep.

However it's also a powerful revelation, it gives you a tool for understanding people and that tool can change your life. If you suspect someone may be involved with you simply to take advantage (emotionally, financially, sexually, socially, whatever), you can start asking them for things.

The ones that care will give you what you ask for. The ones that don't will disappear almost immediately (which is one hell of a moment of clarity when you've known them for years).

When you feel a relationship is one-sided and you ask the other person (nicely) to do something which will even out the score, the result is always a win. If they value the relationship you get what you want and the relationship is reaffirmed. If they don't then a toxic relationship ends and you can go focus on the healthy ones.

This tool is so powerful that it's really on you to be fair and strike a balance. Once you start using it you'll find it's surprisingly easy to overuse, there are a lot of people who have problems with saying no. There are no rules but I try to strike a 50/50 balance of give and take even when the other person says they're happy. Aside from your innate sense of fairness the only other real check on your ability to use other people is your reputation (that's an enormous one over time, though).

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#122

Post by Geminidog »

pksebben wrote: post #101
BurningFrog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty simple: Women look to men for strength, so showing weakness takes a man out of consideration as a partner.

These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements lik…

>but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad.

It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women.

For example Women tend to have bigger breasts then most men. Men tend to be physically stronger than women. Men tend to run faster than women. Women tend to be shorter then men. Men tend to weigh more than women.

These are all the same exact broad generalizations of the same nature that you pinpointed above but have the strange opposite effect. You say it is toxic to make broad generalizations but despite this you and most people would agree that you'd be insane not to notice the general differences in physicality I mentioned above. This is a contradiction.

Why is it when someone makes a generalization about the physical differences between men and women there is no resistance but as soon as someone mentions behavioral differences like how women tend to be attracted to stronger men that person suddenly violated a social contract?

It makes perfect logical sense. We see it all the time. Women are generally attracted to men that are stronger than them. There are tons of exceptions but the generality is real.

The delusion that's occurring within our society today is that although we are aware that biology can control physical differences between men and women by some black magic we cannot even fathom the fact that this same biology controls behavioral differences. No... biology must make men and women have the exact same intelligence and the exact same behavior according to current social thinking. Does this make sense from a logical standpoint? Again... No.... So why do we delude ourselves with this false notion?

We do it because we are afraid of sexism and racism. We are deathly afraid of inequality even though logically inequality is biologically built into us. No one is actually created equal biologically in terms of intelligence, behavior and physicality. It goes against everything we know about biology and natural selection. In order for something to be naturally selected it CANNOT be equal.

What is toxic is the attempt to paint a pretty idealistic picture of the world at the expense of truth. Equal rights for all does not mean people are born with equal biological traits.

Don't let an ideal hide the reality of the world we live in, but also don't let the ugly reality of the world pervert your ideals. We must learn to coexist with the contradiction.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#123

Post by Sylamore »

underseacables wrote: post #64

In my humble opinion, it is critical that we become OK with being alone. I believe that only when we are comfortable by ourselves, can we truly ever be happy with someone else.

This has been my #1 dating advice for my friends who seem to serially jump from one dating attempt to another. They are so afraid of being alone that they grind themselves into the dirt chasing any and every opportunity that might maybe turn into "the one".

However, like most advice, it's never heard until they are ready to hear it.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#124

Post by [deleted] »

Geminidog wrote: post #122
pksebben wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements lik…

>but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women. For example Wo…

[deleted]

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#125

Post by [deleted] »

pksebben wrote: post #101
BurningFrog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty simple: Women look to men for strength, so showing weakness takes a man out of consideration as a partner.

These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements lik…

[deleted]

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#126

Post by fuckminster_b »

apatters wrote: post #121
colmvp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are desperate and lonely and your life is in the toilet. Once in a great while, someone will be truly wonderful to you because you did that but it's usually counterproductive. I met up with a close friend a few days ago to lament how tough its been to live alone throughout this Covid period, to get rejected by dozens of companies while job hunting, and to do o…

> 1. It's usually not actually helpful to signal that you are desperate and lonely and your life is in the toilet. Once in a great while, someone will be truly wonderful to you because you did that but it's usually counterproductive. > 3. Signaling desperation attracts predators far more often than it attracts real friends. Yep, these are excellent and hugely valuable life lessons. There is a real and common tendency…

I found setting up a situation that enables the "friend" in question to profit from your supposed bad luck or better yet, their "informational advantage" over your bumbling sorry ass a very reliable friend-o-Meter.

Several times now, I have invested (and lost) a mere 200 bucks in exchange for certainty about someone I might have otherwise considered a true friend and lost much higher, had I relied on this belief.

If you can convince someone that they're in a position to rip you off for handsome gain without you ever getting wise to it, you won't be left with any doubts about who's a friend. If only everything in life were this simple…

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#127

Post by brundolf »

theboat wrote: post #76

Sometimes it feels like we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic, created or exacerbated by technology like the internet. But the data doesn't actually line up with that belief: https://ourworldindata.org/loneliness-epidemic It looks like we are generally as lonely as we were throughout the 20th century. Perhaps that's a sign the internet hasn't yet lived up to its promise as the great unifier. The fact that the g…

Totally speculating, but I think cultural loneliness may be rooted in individualism. Which isn't to say individualism is intrinsically bad, but one of its trade-offs is the devaluation of relationships, especially ones you haven't gone out of your way to initiate and maintain.

Which is to say: the problem was never a lack of communication channels.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#128

Post by closeparen »

underseacables wrote: post #64

In my humble opinion, it is critical that we become OK with being alone. I believe that only when we are comfortable by ourselves, can we truly ever be happy with someone else.

This is is a popular thing to say on the internet, and surely there's a kernel of truth, but it lacks nuance.

Living without a family or community is like running a marathon.

There's something virtuous about learning to say "fuck you" to your brain's self-protection circuitry, experiencing the hell it raises, and staying the course. Any healthy person could manage it. Many would be better off for the conditioning and the experience.

But pushing on the edges of your design parameters is not going to be sunshine and rainbows. It's supposed to hurt. You should be "OK" in the sense of "stronger than the pain and will make it" not "feeling good."

And it's probably going to hurt a lot more if it's pushed on you from outside vs. a decision to challenge yourself.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#129

Post by neoz »

justathrowa wrote: post #100
underseacables wrote: post #64

In my humble opinion, it is critical that we become OK with being alone. I believe that only when we are comfortable by ourselves, can we truly ever be happy with someone else.

My parents forbade me from having friends when I was around 7 or 8 years old. Hit me across the head to emphasize the point; friends would distract from studying hard, and you don't study hard then you can't get into a good university. So until I was 24 I had no friends whatsoever, not even through university and not even through the time since then. As you might imagine I'm quite okay being alone for the most part h…

Couldn't have said it better myself. I went through something similar. Parents considered most people I would have called as friends not "good enough" and forbid being around them for better part of my childhood. Now, in my 30s I have a few people from work I occasionally hang out with but no one I consider a friend. Haven't much dated either since seems like a chore.

I do wish sometimes that I was normal and had an active social life. Being single/alone at my age is beginning to look weird.

Re: I am lonely will anyone speak to me

#130

Post by fuckminster_b »

Geminidog wrote: post #122
pksebben wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are very broad generalizations, and not at all representative of anything like a truth. I concede that it may have been true in your experiences, but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. Let's try not to limit what's possible by inflicting on the world what we expect. Specifically, statements lik…

>but it's a fairly toxic pattern to make categorical statements about "what women want" or "what men are like" when the spread of human character is so broad. It depends on your definition of toxic and your definition of truth. The belief that categorical statements have zero relevance in this world is an ideal that is just too unlikely to be true. Broad statements can be made about both men and women. For example Wo…

To add another truism in support of your argument: as a man, do you dare chat up a woman physically taller than you? If not, why not?

In my experience, it's only the unusually tall chicks who aren't dead-set on a partner taller than themselves…

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