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Poll: Do you support software patents?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#91

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

jerf wrote: post #85
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the patented thing should not be obvious to one skilled in the art It's a big world and there are a lot of smart people in it. History is full of examples of multiple people independently inventing/discovering the same thing.

And those things aren't supposed to be patentable. How you get from "not supposed to be patentable" to "does not exist" is beyond me. May I also observe it isn't me making a normative claim that such things that are easily re-constructed by anyone should not be patented. It is descriptive, right in the legal definition of patent; it should be not obvious to one skilled in the art. Again, the very fact such a clause i…

I'm not sure what you mean. Did you really intend to reply to me?

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#92

Post by rlpb »

mrcharles wrote: post #16

I can't stand the idea that I might be at my computer, working with code, and develop something independently which later causes me to get sued. Abolish all software patents. edited to add "software".

Fixing your problem would only need the current system to be modified such that independent invention is not infringing. One way, for example, is to make it permissible for independent invention to be considered evidence that the patent is obvious to those skilled in the art and thus not patentable. A patent already granted would be repealed under these circumstances.

Would you still be in favour of abolishment, and if so why?

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#93

Post by barrkel »

notJim wrote: post #62
robryan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade secret actually isn't a bad option, if you patent truly had legs then your secret is probably going to be safe for a fair amount of time. If your patent is getting people on a technicality and really isn't very innovative then your secret won't be much of a secret.

The argument against trade secrets is that they hurt innovation by impeding the flow of information. Patents allow a company to publish their innovations without fear of someone coming along and simply stealing it. By allowing inventors to publish their information with little competitive disadvantage, we enable other inventors to build on their predecessors efforts.

That's not how software patents work in practice. They are written to be as broad and non-specific as possible, because their purpose is to be legal weapons. They are not about spreading innovation; competition, in functioning markets, is sufficient for that.

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#94

Post by mxvanzant »

Patents are not needed to promote innovation -- their intended benefit for the greater good. Innovation will happen anyway. Instead, they are a drag on innovation and also a tool for those with larger pockets to extort from those who cannot afford to fight back. Get rid of them. We will all be better off!

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#95

Post by abrahamsen »

nh wrote: post #51
monochromatic wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a patent question.

No, but it is a intellectual property question. My point was that if you violate a trademark even though you independently came up with it, the same would apply for patents.

Being able to recognize a brand is necessary for the market to function. It is how you know what you are buying, and what you base trust on. At the same time, the cost of coming up with a different name for your competing product is trivial.

So while, yes "the same applies", the cost/benefit ratio of the two situations is totally different.

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#96

Post by shasta »

notJim wrote: post #62
robryan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade secret actually isn't a bad option, if you patent truly had legs then your secret is probably going to be safe for a fair amount of time. If your patent is getting people on a technicality and really isn't very innovative then your secret won't be much of a secret.

The argument against trade secrets is that they hurt innovation by impeding the flow of information. Patents allow a company to publish their innovations without fear of someone coming along and simply stealing it. By allowing inventors to publish their information with little competitive disadvantage, we enable other inventors to build on their predecessors efforts.

The better argument for software is that secrecy doesn't work.

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#97

Post by mindcrime »

I support complete abolishment of the entire patent system, not just software patents. I believe that - in practice - patents do more to inhibit innovation than to encourage it, and I also find the idea that the government will use force to prevent you from using an idea - that you may have developed independently - to be immoral.

Re: Poll: Do you support software patents?

#98

Post by mrcharles »

notJim wrote: post #69
mrcharles wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to all, I specifically meant software patents. Hardware patents are different as they often rely on physical creation of objects and a non-trivial investment in materials/development. Conversely a software idea can be thought up in a few minutes and implemented in the same. In app purchases isn't exactly a clever idea or something that was revelatory. It was simple software evolution.

You're saying all software ideas can be thought of and implemented in a few minutes? That is both absurd, and an insult to the innovation that happens in software. You have 10 minutes, give me an implementation of something that improves upon H.264 by 30%.

Your reductio ad absurdum does not accurately represent what I'm saying. I'm saying that you could possibly make software in a few minutes that could violate a patent. This is extremely unlikely with hardware of significant complexity to earn a patent.
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