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The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

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Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#201
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Self-learning is, overall, a boondoggle. You want a teacher. “I play the guitar. I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision because I didn’t know how to play it, so I was a [bad] teacher. I would never have went to me.”

I was speaking in the context of the piano. I'm told it's easier to self-learn the guitar, but you're working against your own interests if you're violently opposed to the idea of a teacher, no matter the instrument.

> I'm told it's easier to self-learn the guitar

This is false. If you want to strum some chords, then, yes. Guitar's difficulty curve starts out very gentle. But then it quickly gets really, really steep. I self taught classical guitar for a couple of years (after already having played violin for many years), and it's easy to get yourself to the point where it's hard to advance without a teacher. And the harder you push on that knee in the curve by yourself, the more time you'll probably have to spend unlearning bad habits.

Piano's difficulty curve is more even. It starts steeper than guitar, and has a long stretch at about that same slope, before it starts getting steep, too. Compare that to violin which starts basically straight up, but once you get past that initial cliff is fairly gentle for a long, long way.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#202
post #16
post #6

Has someone here picked a musical instrument seriously for the first time in their 20s and managed to self learn? If yes, it would be helpful if you could point to resources that were helpful to you and any daily practice schedule you followed? I have tried learning piano and I found a lot of stuff irritatingly hard to get right and got bored. Like for some reason I am not able to transition to other keys well when I…

Violin at ripe old age of 25. The key for me was enjoyment... playing with others, picking the kind of music I vibe with, not bothering with exercises that are devoid of emotion and joy. I slapped frets on my violin to make the learning curve easier, which made a few people raise an eyebrow, but... I don't care. I'm here to enjoy it, not to become a purist. Can I real sheet music? Nope. Do I understand all the fancy…

> I slapped frets on my violin to make the learning curve easier

It's not totally crazy. Fretted, bowed instruments have a long history, such as the viola da gamba. The frets there have more to do with tone than pitch, though.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#203
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violin at ripe old age of 25. The key for me was enjoyment... playing with others, picking the kind of music I vibe with, not bothering with exercises that are devoid of emotion and joy. I slapped frets on my violin to make the learning curve easier, which made a few people raise an eyebrow, but... I don't care. I'm here to enjoy it, not to become a purist. Can I real sheet music? Nope. Do I understand all the fancy…

\o fellow violinist here. Never thought about frets, but a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. Usually it'd only go to about 2nd position at most. You have a reference point for where to place your finger, but it doesn't impact pitch (and prevent vibrato) as much as a fret would. Just something to think about... :)

> a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard.

I have come to dislike this method. It gets the student focused on looking at the fingerboard and using the small lateral muscles in their fingers to try to reach for the tape rather than finding the large muscle positioning and biomechanics that produces in tune fingerings.

Hold up your hand with fingers straight. Try spreading your fingers and then pulling them together fast. They kind of "pop" between the two positions, and if you look at the spread position, they're basically the same distance apart. So if you can arrange your arm so that spread drops an in-tune whole step on the fingerboard and together drops an in-tune half step, you will play in tune.

You do that by rotating your elbow under the instrument. The farther toward your back the elbow is, the more your hand is angled from the neck, and the closer the spacing between where your fingers fall on the fingerboard. The more your push your elbow forward, the more your fingers fall farther apart on the strings. There's an in-tune position for each of the four strings, and kind of inbetweens for double stops. Training your gross muscle memory to find that position is vastly easier than searching for tapes, you don't get in the habit of looking at the fingerboard (because there's nothing there that makes a difference), and you don't get slowed down later because your lateral muscles in your fingers are tense and making your fingers move slower.

The funny thing is that I think this was described in Geminiani's treatise, which was the first manual of violin playing ever.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#204

Can it get you to Marc Rebillet's [0] level in 5 years of a few hours per day practice? He makes it look so effortless and I can't even begin to imagine the flow state he's experiencing. [0] https://youtu.be/XMFnkKWXgKw?t=203

I feel like there's two different skill-sets at play--the ability to learn a piece, as printed, and play it back accurately, and then this, which is more improvisational skills. The two skill sets intertwine but mastery of one does not necessarily transfer.

To learn the latter quickly, I find it easiest to build a catalogue of music you like listening to, and then figure out how to transcribe it (by ear) on your piano. Maybe just the most overt melody lines at first, before you can grok chords all that well.

In time, you start building your own internalized library of "licks", little musical gestures that are automatic, and to achieve what Marc is doing, is to just string those gestures together. It sounds musically complex but when you're doing it, it almost feels like cheating, because you're leaning so hard on these "tropes" that you've built up over time.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#205
Oh man this is so exciting!

We've been looking for content to help bootstrap https://pianogym.com

If you're not familiar with Piano Gym - We're an independent content creation and learning platform for Piano that uses flash cards and spaced repetition to smooth out all the hard parts of deliberate practice for learning Piano!

You can see a beta demo video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMmSM4RB1NI

One of the biggest issues we've had has been getting teachers to create content for us, but with this kind of open content, that doesn't seem to be a problem anymore!

Come and check out Piano Gym if you're interested! We'd love to have you in the gym with us!

Come and do your reps!

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#206
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was speaking in the context of the piano. I'm told it's easier to self-learn the guitar, but you're working against your own interests if you're violently opposed to the idea of a teacher, no matter the instrument.

> I'm told it's easier to self-learn the guitar This is false. If you want to strum some chords, then, yes. Guitar's difficulty curve starts out very gentle. But then it quickly gets really, really steep. I self taught classical guitar for a couple of years (after already having played violin for many years), and it's easy to get yourself to the point where it's hard to advance without a teacher. And the harder you p…

Interesting multidimensional analysis. I’d like to see a collection and ongoing discussion of these graphs. Not just for musical instruments but everything. Start a blog, friend, or point me at ones you’ve seen.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I have to disagree a lot. An app is not the best way to learn piano. Piano is not just about pressing keys. Does the app correct your position (important if you don't want to get fatigue and cramps), your volume, fingerings, etc? Does it tell you how to practice the parts where you're struggling? > connect it to an el cheapo midi keyboard Please don't do that. I mean, if you just want to give it a try to pi…

Going to shamelessly use this thread to pulse check something I am working on. I too have been learning piano over the last five months or so, but I found a private teacher through a local music school. Very glad I made that decision, we work well together and it’s amazing having someone for 1hr a week to keep you on track, motivated, correcting you in real time. Apps cannot do that, but there IS room for technology…

Isn’t this what google’s shared piano does? Its been a god send to me as a virtual teacher throughout this whole pandemic.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I honestly can’t express how truly depressing and miserable your comment is. Self deprecating to use another language incorrectly to “humble” yourself? Seems pretty obviously racist. It’s like saying “Ching Chong China virus” and calling it self-deprecating. Petty fucking gross. Wish I had the confidence of a white person to never think about my affect on others... or what language can do. Let alone to get pa…

I apologise for the phrase I used. I was not aware that it had a slur built into it. My linguistic humor is based off the internet - English is not my first language. Im Indian and most definitely not white. However will still apologise for it.

Don’t apologize to this absurd person

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

\o fellow violinist here. Never thought about frets, but a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. Usually it'd only go to about 2nd position at most. You have a reference point for where to place your finger, but it doesn't impact pitch (and prevent vibrato) as much as a fret would. Just something to think about... :)

> a lot of people (myself included) started with tape on their fingerboard. I have come to dislike this method. It gets the student focused on looking at the fingerboard and using the small lateral muscles in their fingers to try to reach for the tape rather than finding the large muscle positioning and biomechanics that produces in tune fingerings. Hold up your hand with fingers straight. Try spreading your fingers…

OP was using frets, so I mentioned tapes... :-)

Fundamentally, technique differs a lot based on size of the player. Ricci vs Perlman vs Shaham vs Midori vs Hahn vs Paganini, they all make the technique looks effortless. And the a lot reason why is because they've spent a lot of time removing bad tension from their playing.

While elbow positioning does matter, it is more a function of string and third vs fifth hand position. The fingerboard is curved, not flat, and you want the finger to land normal to the board for any given string.

Look for the work of Sol Babitz, or if you can't find it, Borivoj Martinic-Jercic's forward to his exercises.

For me, what helped the most was removing the shoulder rest during practice. You become accutely aware of the the delicate balancing act that needs to occur, and the forces you put on the instrument. With time, you can develop balance in the left hand and achieve better dexterity than before. For anyone with sufficiently long neck, you can no longer rely on continual holding, and need to support the instrument (in fixed position sections) via the thumb. This encourages you to release pressure on the digits as you play. :-)

But like OP said, they're happy so why mess with what works for them. :-)

P.S. what rep are you working on? Feel free to drop me an email if you're interested in discussing more.

Re: The Mayron Cole Piano Method is now free

#210
If you want to learn the acoustic instrument-- either upright or grand piano-- pay a teacher to show you how to learn.

There are just so many parts of piano-playing that are counterintuitive. At the same time, if you learn them early and practice a little bit, it's not difficult to develop healthy habits that will make everything you play sound more natural and beautiful.

It's a bit frustrating because at least in the U.S., most people don't do this and just learn how to depress some keys in the right order.

To me, hearing that result is equivalent to walking into someone's house and seeing pictures on the wall where the paint is smeared past the border onto the wall. It's novel the first time, but once you realize everyone's walls are like that you start to feel like you're being set up to eventually burn to death inside a wicker man.

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