BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards • Hacker News Board

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#261

Post by leetcrew » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #258

noisem4ker wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>FWD has no meaningful benefit other than cost ... and lower weight, and no tunnel, and more boot space. If anything, it's RWD which struggles to maintain its significance and show its benefits outside of sports. Modern platforms can make the front wheels turn and spin at the same time without much fuss, with driving characteristics determined by other factors.

Weight is a wash. We're talking like a cumulative 100lb by integrating the front diff with the transmission and losing the drive shaft. Tunnel is nice but most cars still don't have a flat floor because they stick a tunnel in there for exhaust and the floor-pan is likely shared at least in part with an AWD crossover that puts a drive shaft there and it's usually important enough for floor rigidity so they don't omit…

there's an argument to be made that understeer is probably the better failure mode for a poor driver.

anyways, most commuters are probably not approaching the limits of grip while accelerating through corners. most people I know have trouble remembering not to brake through turns. the implications of weight transfer during acceleration for a FWD vehicle are much more noticeable during daily driving. it's especially sad to see with all these 200+ hp hot hatches. they have pretty good power to weight ratios on paper but they just can't put it down. a moderately quick start at an intersection in anything other than ideal conditions results in wheel spin every time.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#262

Post by NoSorryCannot » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #260

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you're trying to catch this guy out for cognitive dissonance but I'm not seeing it. CarPlay is offered in perfectly functional forms in the market right now for a reasonable upfront price that people will pay for a known feature set. A subscription arguably can make the product less valuable, because of uncertainty about continuing support, changes to the subscription model or software, and an unknown p…

But uncertainty about ongoing support is a problem anyway because Apple could change the protocol.

That doesn't justify adding additional uncertainty about what BMW is going to do with their sunscriptions and software and for how long.

And anyway, confidence in Apple is justifiably higher.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#263

Post by snark42 » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #257

grawprog wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It makes sense, BMW quit being a car company in the past few years. BMW has always first and foremost been a logo marketing company. They exist so moderately rich people can show off how moderately rich they are by driving a car with a BMW logo on it.

They have marketed well. But BMW also knows a little bit about making really nice, quiet, powerful, fun to drive cars.

And motorcycles.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#264

Post by rconti » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #218

rconti wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is both misinformed, and rudimentary "my first car forum" or "import vs domestic in the 1990s" level analysis of vehicle dynamics. To not even attempt to call out a car model or even a brand or generation, and just hand-wave "baseline luxury German cars", and not attempt to specify what type of cornering you're discussing here. The biggest problem a Tesla would have vs a competitive ICE sport sedan wo…

Take a Model 3 on an autocross track or even a windy mountain road. Then take any BMW or Audi priced $10k-$20k lower (and not the boat SUVs) and tell me which one is more fun to drive. Also, a Roadster is definitely not a "mainstream Tesla." I used that word to specifically exclude the Roadster, as it's $250k and a completely different discussion. I agree that using the term "dog" was an exaggeration.

Ok, I have a Model 3 and I've autocrossed it and driven it on windy mountain roads, and I have done the same with many BMWs including my own.

And the roadster I was referring to was the original one, not the one that, as far as I know, doesn't exist (though, I can't say I pay a lot of attention to Tesla news because the fanboyism is an absolutely toxic combination of .. well, fanboyism, and automotive ignorance).

I don't think the Model 3 is quite as fun as a manual transmission non-turbo 6cyl BMW 3 series. I get a lot of tactile enjoyment from shifting, I enjoy the sounds of a nice engine, and I enjoy the power delivery of an internal combustion engine. Of course, all of these things that I enjoy are actually things that make the vehicle slower compared to a dual clutch or modern automatic, or a boosted engine of a similar size, or an electric motor with no gearbox required to keep the engine near its powerband; they're all anachronisms.

The extra mass of the Tesla is less of a drawback to me over (say) a turbo BMW 3 series automatic, vice comparing that turbo automatic 3er to a manual BMW 3 series without a turbo. None of these cars can really truly be called "nimble", but I'm quite pleased with the balance, cornering ability and especially outright grip of our RWD Model 3 (with Michelin P4s tires replacing the eco crap of course). It's all a sliding scale, but yes, my primary objection is putting the Teslas in a class entirely below all German sedans. On a mountain road I'd happily take the Model 3 over an A4, even if not the "right" BMW 3 series for the road.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#265

Post by knolax » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

joefife wrote: post #58

xwdv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m tired of trashy Chinese tastes gaining so much influence in the world.

Now you understand the objection to American influence. Oddly, the same adjective is frequently used.

Sure thing, Chinese amd American tastes are trashy but European tastes are ohhhh so sophisticated!/s If a European company designs an ugly car it can't possibly be because the enlightened European designers have bad taste, it must be because of those savages in the overseas markets and their nefarious influence.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#266

Post by supernova87a » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

For some reason I'm reminded of the story of the early British rail company, which, running out of ways to extract value on ticket prices, segmented their train cars into 3 classes and took the roof off the 3rd class (subjecting it to rain, unpleasant exposure) to scare 1st class passengers into not buying too cheap a ticket.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#267

Post by volta87 » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #154

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Front wheel drive models, Better for driving on snow, if you're at a place where that matters.

Marginally so, under certain use cases. Unfortunately, it suddenly becomes worse when you want to steer AND accelerate. And, much like AWD, it can give you a sense of confidence in your ability to move that is not matched by your ability to stop. If you live somewhere that snow matters, get good tires.

> Marginally so, under certain use cases.

My reality disagrees. I live in a place with a lot of snow, and pretty much see cars that have sliden off the highway every week. All of them are BMWs. And they are all required by law to have winter tires at least.

Winter tires do help, but there is a huge difference between RWD with good tires and 4 wheel drive (notice also that 4WD and AWD is not the same thing, and there are also different qualities).

(it just so happen that here, BMWs are the most popular rear wheel drive cars)

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#268

Post by jariel » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #254

PedroBatista wrote: post #143

It makes sense, BMW quit being a car company in the past few years. Now they’re just clueless assholes. I’ve seen it in their IT systems, their design teams are either on crack or got outsourced to 4 year olds and their product/sales gurus are a mix of bean counters incapable of producing an original idea and a bunch of lifers running on nepotism. It’s starting to happen and will get even worse, BMW will have a tough…

>It makes sense, BMW quit being a car company in the past few years. BMW has always first and foremost been a logo marketing company. They exist so moderately rich people can show off how moderately rich they are by driving a car with a BMW logo on it.

The cars are good though. I owned one once, and it drove like magic.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#269

Post by asciimike » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

petre wrote: post #242

hhh wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the illuminated one, yeah? They look decent in person, I saw a few of the pre-prod grills at $WORK. I don't think it was worth how much went into making them though. A lot of individual components in that grille, and an absolute astonishing amount of development had to be done by suppliers.

Illuminated? It's clearly for the Chinese market then. I'm talking about the grille on the iX. I wonder what's next, an electric X6 with this grill, the pinnacle of ugliness? Compare that with the M2 which is a looker and a badass car.

Speaking as an M2 owner (and an E36 owner before that), can confirm it's an excellent looking and performing car--arguably the last "enthusiast" car BMW has produced.

I'm also pretty annoyed with the current direction, and if I get another car (performance or otherwise) it's very unlikely to be a BMW.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#270

Post by chrisseaton » Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #214

chrisseaton wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is the case whether you pay up front or as a subscription. So what is the upside to paying up front?

> So what is the upside to paying up front? A ceiling on the price? Now granted this is a BMW, so I wouldn’t dare own it outside of the warranty period, but I usually keep a car 10-15 years. So the longer I keep the car, the more this feature with a low, fixed cost, costs? Screw that.

> A ceiling on the price?

So just factor that into your equation. Some people would prefer a ceiling, some flexibility. The point is it isn't obviously and inherently a 'scam.' It's just a different way to price and pay for things.