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BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

thedrive.com

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Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#151

Post by schmorptron »

chrisseaton wrote: post #133
tomp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay Well that's a scam if there ever was one. Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? Might as well buy an iPad and solder it over BMW's control panel.

> Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? I don't get this fundamental objection. It's just a different way to pay. Either you pay up-front or you pay a subscription. Work out the total cost of ownership (you'll need to estimate how long you likely keep the car either way.) Now take that final figure and either it's worth it to you or it isn't. How that final figure gets paid doesn't seem like a bi…

For subscriptions they can just change the price at a whim, stop offering your the service whenever they want or change it in a way that you don't want to. When you own / own the license to the software / feature, they can't just pull a fast one as easily.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#152

Post by lmilcin »

chrisseaton wrote: post #133
tomp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay Well that's a scam if there ever was one. Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? Might as well buy an iPad and solder it over BMW's control panel.

> Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? I don't get this fundamental objection. It's just a different way to pay. Either you pay up-front or you pay a subscription. Work out the total cost of ownership (you'll need to estimate how long you likely keep the car either way.) Now take that final figure and either it's worth it to you or it isn't. How that final figure gets paid doesn't seem like a bi…

I don't understand why this perfectly valid comment is getting downvoted.

It is not like BMW sold the item and only then decided to start charging. When you buy it is up to you to understand all the up front and delayed cost. Most people prefer delayed costs.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#153

Post by otter-in-a-suit »

Tade0 wrote: post #90
patrulo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to subscription-based features, it's still my go-to brand. Other (non-exotic) brands are either downsizing (2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake) or going fully electric – and I like my v8 rumble in the morning.

2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity. There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines. Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are,…

2021 Corvette Stingray (6.2l V8), 2021 Dodge Challenger (6.4l V8), 2021 Camaro SS/ZL1 (6.2l V8), 2020 Mustang 5.0, various trucks - there's still plenty of modern car with V8, often even N/A V8s.

People buy cars like that because they like the V8 rumble. I have an older 3.0l N/A I6 BMW (N52), and not because I couldn't have gotten a more feature-loaded Honda for the same price.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#154

Post by rconti »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #150
adav wrote: post #57

I used to really like BMWs but they have lost their way in my opinion. Front wheel drive models, charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay, that 4-series grill, increasingly horrific customer service at dealers and foregoing their position as the market leader in handling and dynamics really rub me up the wrong way.

> Front wheel drive models, Better for driving on snow, if you're at a place where that matters.

Marginally so, under certain use cases. Unfortunately, it suddenly becomes worse when you want to steer AND accelerate. And, much like AWD, it can give you a sense of confidence in your ability to move that is not matched by your ability to stop.

If you live somewhere that snow matters, get good tires.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#155

Post by zests »

This is the uncanny valley between dystopian and genius. My vote goes toward dystopian because no doubt extremely targeted billboards or even posters are on their way.

What happens when phones are constantly broadcasting your unique advertising identifier and everyone knows what you’re looking for before they even lay eyes on you?

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#156

Post by gambiting »

avianlyric wrote: post #138
gambiting wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I just said in another comment - they can figure it out without any private information. Licence plates are public and they are allowed to scan one with a camera, and they provide warranty on all BMW cars, so they know(and have the right to know) if a specific car is covered by them or not. They have all the iformation they need.

You're not wrong about them in theory having all the data they need to identify out of warranty cars. But if they are legitimately identifying out of warranty cars (I suspect they're not), then that doesn't give them the right to publicly broadcast the information to the wider world. Which I suspect is the crux of this issue.

But again, it depends what sort of information is broadcast. If the bilboard says "hey, driver of BMW reg number EK16 WHD, your warranty is expired!" then that's definitely a problem. But if all that happens is a generic BMW warranty bilboard appears whenever an out-of-warranty car drives past "hey, is your BMW warranty expired? Extend today!" then it's probably ok legally.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#157

Post by chrisseaton »

schmorptron wrote: post #151
chrisseaton wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who wants a subscription for basic functionality in a car? I don't get this fundamental objection. It's just a different way to pay. Either you pay up-front or you pay a subscription. Work out the total cost of ownership (you'll need to estimate how long you likely keep the car either way.) Now take that final figure and either it's worth it to you or it isn't. How that final figure gets paid doesn't seem like a bi…

For subscriptions they can just change the price at a whim, stop offering your the service whenever they want or change it in a way that you don't want to. When you own / own the license to the software / feature, they can't just pull a fast one as easily.

Wait this seems like an argument for subscription. If the product is changed with an update you don't like, or becomes incompatible with your new phone, or an update to your phone, or stops being useful to you for some other reason, you can stop paying.

If you pay £2k up front for CarPlay as an option and then Apple changes the protocol and you can't use it you're stuck with a lemon you already paid for. As a subscription you can stop paying.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#158

Post by 762236 »

durnygbur wrote: post #14

I remember reading an interview with BMW designer that the obnoxiously huge front grills are a nod to the Chinese customers. Chinese customers wanted the drivers in front of them to feel intimidated, as if the car and driver behind wanted to eat them. Other premium brands like Lexus followed with this trend.

Germans tell me that they also want intimidating cars for the left lane of the Autobahn.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#159

Post by moooo99 »

PedroBatista wrote: post #143

It makes sense, BMW quit being a car company in the past few years. Now they’re just clueless assholes. I’ve seen it in their IT systems, their design teams are either on crack or got outsourced to 4 year olds and their product/sales gurus are a mix of bean counters incapable of producing an original idea and a bunch of lifers running on nepotism. It’s starting to happen and will get even worse, BMW will have a tough…

> Now they’re just clueless assholes. I’ve seen it in their IT systems, their design teams are either on crack or got outsourced to 4 year olds and their product/sales gurus are a mix of bean counters incapable of producing an original idea and a bunch of lifers running on nepotism.

Can confirm. BMW used to be quite innovative, at least on the scale of German automakers, with their connect services. We have a fairly well equipped and fairly new BMW which includes those services. Not only can they get quite expensive (especially their incredibly pretentious concierge service), but their smartphone integration is awful at least (CarPlay is a subscription). The only connected drive services that could be remotely useful are so bad, they're basically unusable.

> It’s starting to happen and will get even worse, BMW will have a tough decade at least.

The only innovation BMW was able to come up with in the last few years is increasing the size of the front grill. I am not sure if BMW is incompetent, ignorant, uncreative or if they're just aholes (looking at managements behavior during the pandemic, that's certainly the case).

I doubt that BMW will be able to maintain its independence as a car manufacturer in the long run, unless there are some dramatic changes in line. My guess is that they'll be acquired by some other car manufacturer, maybe Daimler (although they face similar challenges), but more likely some huge Chinese company.

Re: BMW to shame out-of-warranty UK drivers with smart billboards

#160

Post by vbezhenar »

Tade0 wrote: post #90
patrulo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to subscription-based features, it's still my go-to brand. Other (non-exotic) brands are either downsizing (2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake) or going fully electric – and I like my v8 rumble in the morning.

2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity. There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines. Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are,…

There's no need to pay 10x when you can buy Dacia Logan. Yet people still paying it to get something they don't have in Logan. Big bad engine is one of those features I guess.
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