Interview advice that got me offers • Hacker News Board

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#201

Post by closeparen » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #128

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had this discussion during interviews as a disarming technique. Candidates will sometimes express nervousness at the beginning and say stuff like "I'm terrible at interviews" or "it's been a while since I've had to do this kind of programming," and I try to respond by making it clear that I understand that the whiteboard coding has very little in common with the actual job and that I'm not judging them, so when…

> I'm not judging them I don't understand - what is the point of you interviewing them if you aren't there to judge them? What are you doing it for then?

When a candidate bombs an interview, I don't think "wow, what a shitty engineer, how are they even employed?" I think, "wow, interviewing sucks."

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#202

Post by steverb » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

random5634 wrote: post #65

rkachowski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find that recruiters will typically give you a salary range beyond "competitive" before you've started the interview process?

I do hiring (not recruiting). I generally want to understand what someone's ask is first. After that I'm usually very upfront (ie, immediate verbal feedback) on how that falls into the position vs their apparent skill set etc. If they have come in low (not uncommon for non bay area folks) I'll let them know that there are opportunities for growth beyond where they would start at. If they are someone we want we'll gen…

"If they are too high I'm usually upfront that at that rate they'd be flat compensation wise for a number of years"

I've heard that once before and it always puzzled me. Basically you're telling the candidate that you want to underpay them now, so you can eventually pay them what they are worth. The math is in their favor even if they don't get a raise next year. And of course, next year they will be worth more anyway because they will have another year's experience plus additional domain knowledge.

I'm curious if anyone has ever fallen for that line.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#203

Post by chrisseaton » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #201

chrisseaton wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not judging them I don't understand - what is the point of you interviewing them if you aren't there to judge them? What are you doing it for then?

When a candidate bombs an interview, I don't think "wow, what a shitty engineer, how are they even employed?" I think, "wow, interviewing sucks."

Why bother interviewing if you aren’t learning anything about the person but only about how bad your interviews are?

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#204

Post by closeparen » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:17 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #203

closeparen wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a candidate bombs an interview, I don't think "wow, what a shitty engineer, how are they even employed?" I think, "wow, interviewing sucks."

Why bother interviewing if you aren’t learning anything about the person but only about how bad your interviews are?

There are several hills I would strongly consider dying on, but interview reform is not one of them.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#205

Post by kerng » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #167

kerng wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never give a recruiter a number - there is 0 value you get out of it and it gives the company you interview for the power and you'll leave money on the table. Let them tell you. I always just say stuff like "I assume that the compensation at amazing company xyz will be competitive enough to consider"

This is terrible, outdated advice for anyone with more than a couple years experience. The value you get out of it is not wasting everyone's time when the salary available isn't even close to high enough. Decide what your minimum compensation requirement is, increase this by some percentage that would make you happy, and give that to recruiters. You will get far more out of avoiding bullshit than you will potentially…

I doubt that advise is outdated, I'm not sure it was ever "in" for anyone who doesnt have a sales background (typical programmer).

Why would I even bother giving them a number if they dont do it first? My way of saying, dont waste my time.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#206

Post by tomcam » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #167

kerng wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never give a recruiter a number - there is 0 value you get out of it and it gives the company you interview for the power and you'll leave money on the table. Let them tell you. I always just say stuff like "I assume that the compensation at amazing company xyz will be competitive enough to consider"

This is terrible, outdated advice for anyone with more than a couple years experience. The value you get out of it is not wasting everyone's time when the salary available isn't even close to high enough. Decide what your minimum compensation requirement is, increase this by some percentage that would make you happy, and give that to recruiters. You will get far more out of avoiding bullshit than you will potentially…

I am an old guy who is a better-than-average negotiator (top 20%, not top 1%) and I’d like to hear more about that. In my view, it is never advantageous to come up with the first number in any kind of business negotiation and I have done tens of millions of dollars in negotiations for myself over the last couple of decades. But I haven’t interviewed for a job in 20 years. I would like to hear more about why that concept is outdated. Not arguing, just genuinely curious.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#207

Post by itronitron » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #198

itronitron wrote: post #102

Worth noting that the author claims to get lots of job offers but is not able to "create an array" in a language of their choice from memory.

I think you're saying this to dismiss the wisdom of the author. I think it's actually worth noting that you can be a very valuable developer and not remember minutiae. For example, in the last few days I wrote in C++, Python and JS. Do you think my fingers always typed the right type of bracket to create an array as I jumped between the languages? Who cares.

I am merely encouraging people that read the blog post to recognize that the author may be embellishing some points.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#208

Post by 908B64B197 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

ek750 wrote: post #191

decafninja wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a candidate can grind leetcode and prepare for a huge number of companies. On the other hand, something like a homework assignment is typically good for a single company, and if you fail, it's time and effort and emotional energy down the toilet.

I've done tons of interviews over the past 10 years. It was surprising to me the number of times the experience on a resume didn't line up with what the interviewee showed through conversation and small whiteboard exercises. I get that it's not very real-world representative, and that's why homework is used instead by some companies. Maybe the answer is to give the applicant a choice? Either be prepared to convince m…

What does your applicant pipeline looks like?

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#209

Post by dzolob » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:32 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #201

chrisseaton wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not judging them I don't understand - what is the point of you interviewing them if you aren't there to judge them? What are you doing it for then?

When a candidate bombs an interview, I don't think "wow, what a shitty engineer, how are they even employed?" I think, "wow, interviewing sucks."

This is a beautiful take on life. Thanks.

Re: Interview advice that got me offers

#210

Post by munchbunny » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

saberdancer wrote: post #111

mgh2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never give the first number https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24588379

Honestly I tried this every time I was interviewed. Never could get them to give the first number. I probably should have been firmer but usually the pressure of the situation led to me giving a number I would be happy with.

I’m surprised that’s happening to you. I’ve never gotten pushback when I ask them to give the first number.

Usually that comes with the offer letter, or comes with the numbers that the recruiter reads to you before the offer letter.