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Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

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Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#31

Post by bad_user »

spauka wrote: post #21
darklajid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see quite a lot of good reasons for it - but the site fails to list any decent alternatives. I don't think there are any at this point. To give you an impression of things that might speak against using Skype (not that I want to imply that these should matter to you. I merely want to speak for the 'I'd like to leave (but cannot)' side): 1) It's proprietary. We cannot validate the protocol without reverse engineerin…

What I have never understood about any of these arguments is the demonization of corporations for the purposes of argument. IF, and I stress if, there is a better option, for users then I suggest use it. But arguments such as it was bought by Microsoft therefore it must be bad do not make sense. To be more specific, Skype had all the valid issues it had (such as proprietary format, advertising etc.) before it was acq…

    No company is less evil than any other
This isn't an argument that I get.

"Evilness" is not judged only by potential, but also by reputation based on previous history. Clearly companies are in the business of making money, so at some point they may break rules in order to make money, but so do individuals when placed in positions of power.

And no baby is more evil than any other baby, but grownups are very different in that regard, that's why people rely so much on reputation when discussing a person's ethics and trustworthiness, since it's the only metric that counts.

Clearly you can compare the evilness of any 2 companies by looking at their past history, just as we do with individual human beings.

    whether products should be used or not 
    should not depend on who owns them
This argument only holds if after the purchase you OWN said product. But this is not the case with proprietary software, and even less so with web-based services. In such instances you're actually leasing the product and you're depending on the company's good will for continued maintenance and improvement of said product. And because switching products goes from easy to next to impossible, with lock-in effects and all that, the relationship that a company establishes with you after becoming a customer is very important, as you depend on that relationship.

And when building relationships in general, you also have to take into account how that company or person is treating other customers.

Not that open-source products are any better (I'm referring to those who's main sponsor retains copyrights for all contributions), as there have been instances where communities haven't read the "fine print", with the main sponsors later turning around and screwing with said communities. See Sun/Oracle and their schizophrenic involvement in projects such as Mysql and Java.

This is the main reason why companies are acting the way they do, constantly screwing their customers, because customers take it as a fact of life that such companies can screw with them.

Imagine if your neighbor took a piss in your roses every Friday, and you found out about it. Would you still lent him your lawn mower next time he asks? Why would you allow companies to constantly piss on your lawn, instead of voting with your wallet and taking your business to some other company that cares more about you?

I mean, capitalism itself only works efficiently if you are voting with your wallet.

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#33

Post by darklajid »

spauka wrote: post #21
darklajid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see quite a lot of good reasons for it - but the site fails to list any decent alternatives. I don't think there are any at this point. To give you an impression of things that might speak against using Skype (not that I want to imply that these should matter to you. I merely want to speak for the 'I'd like to leave (but cannot)' side): 1) It's proprietary. We cannot validate the protocol without reverse engineerin…

What I have never understood about any of these arguments is the demonization of corporations for the purposes of argument. IF, and I stress if, there is a better option, for users then I suggest use it. But arguments such as it was bought by Microsoft therefore it must be bad do not make sense. To be more specific, Skype had all the valid issues it had (such as proprietary format, advertising etc.) before it was acq…

> To be more specific, Skype had all the valid issues it had (such as proprietary format, advertising etc.) before it was acquired by Microsoft.

Since you responded to my comment, let me reply to this with 'Exactly. I didn't (intended to) imply anything else'. We're on the same page.

Sure, some people might look into alternatives because of other reasons (aquisition). My reply listed just issues I have with the product itself though (and for a long time already..).

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#34

Post by barefoot »

spauka wrote: post #21
darklajid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see quite a lot of good reasons for it - but the site fails to list any decent alternatives. I don't think there are any at this point. To give you an impression of things that might speak against using Skype (not that I want to imply that these should matter to you. I merely want to speak for the 'I'd like to leave (but cannot)' side): 1) It's proprietary. We cannot validate the protocol without reverse engineerin…

What I have never understood about any of these arguments is the demonization of corporations for the purposes of argument. IF, and I stress if, there is a better option, for users then I suggest use it. But arguments such as it was bought by Microsoft therefore it must be bad do not make sense. To be more specific, Skype had all the valid issues it had (such as proprietary format, advertising etc.) before it was acq…

Some companies are certainly less (or more) evil when common societal norms and mores are used as a yardstick. Look at Xe (Blackwater) for example:

http://www.google.com/search?q=blackwater+allegations

Microsoft (and most tech companies) are not very evil in comparison so I think it's very possible to make a quick heuristic determination about how evil two companies are.

Now, take away Xe and compare Microsoft, Google, IBM, and Apple for example. Certainly one is most evil and one is the least evil.

The problem I think you're pointing out is that they are probably very close to each other on the good-evil spectrum. Our moral irises have just opened all the way because we sit in comfortable padded chairs and wiggle our fingers over a plastic box all day to make a nice living.

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#35

Post by shubble »

steve-howard wrote: post #14
p4bl0 wrote: post #3

I don't see why people would quit using Skype now. The fact that it has been bought by Microsoft doesn't change that Skype is evil. It already was. It already was a closed source software using a proprietary protocol and doing stuff you don't know with your bandwidth. Don't get me wrong, it's great if people switch from Skype to something free (as in freedom), but not if it's because it has been bought by Microsoft,…

Really? "Evil" just because it's closed-source? Regardless, I'd imagine most Linux Skype users have at least a few Windows users on their contact lists -- and good luck getting them to switch operating systems.

This presentation: http://goo.gl/hgkea [pdf], shows why skype is evil.

The protocol and client are both obfuscated at cost to performance and security. Exploits have been found repeatedly for everything from remote code execution to using skype clients like a botnet.

Non-NAT'd nodes are forced to carry traffic for NATed nodes. Skype have the ability to intercept your calls, but you guessed that anyway.

Also, if everyone in the world used one phone company, or bank, and that company refused to allow other new companies to inter-operate, they would face antitrust. Skype, and arguably facebook, control their markets. They should be forced to allow inter-op.

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#36

Post by wyclif »

Derbasti wrote: post #13
wyclif wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that losing the Linux client for Skype isn't a tragedy, since it sucks and has since the beginning, unlike the Mac client.

Ouch. The Skype Mac client sucks hard. It is pretty feature-complete, though.

True, the Mac client is slightly better.

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#37

Post by pbhjpbhj »

fname wrote: post #11
stashdot wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple reason is that the Linux version of Skype might be axed as a result of the acquisition. This has happened before.

Except that they refuted that very statement in their press release Skype will support Microsoft devices like Xbox and Kinect, Windows Phone and a wide array of Windows devices, and Microsoft will connect Skype users with Lync, Outlook, Xbox Live and other communities. Microsoft will continue to invest in and support Skype clients on non-Microsoft platforms. http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2011/may11/05-10Co…

I don't see a rebuttal of the claim that they will no longer update the linux client (which beta is about 4 years old IIRC), or probably just drop it.

If one was really naive I guess one might imagine that "invest in and support Skype clients on non-Microsoft platforms" might cover linux rather than a limited set of possible platforms. I have no worries about the java based client on my phone for example.

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#38

Post by p4bl0 »

Argorak wrote: post #28
p4bl0 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linphone is "just" a SIP client. Your contacts can use it if they want and you can use another SIP client. Just like Google Talk use XMPP and people can use any client to connect to their GTalk account and then talk with anyone using Jabber/XMPP (even not Google Talk). That's why open protocols are good. Because they're open.

I am fully aware of that. Still, this post markets them as "skype alternatives". I think the biggest problem of selling those 'open protocols' to people is that there is no consistent base client as in 'lets all switch to skype (client, protocol, server, whatever)'. I work in a company where we use all major OSes. If I came up with "hey lets switch to client A for Linux users, client B for windows users and client X…

... and in the darkness bind them. ;-p

Re: Bye Bye Skype, Top 3 Free Replacements

#39

Post by Argorak »

p4bl0 wrote: post #38
Argorak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fully aware of that. Still, this post markets them as "skype alternatives". I think the biggest problem of selling those 'open protocols' to people is that there is no consistent base client as in 'lets all switch to skype (client, protocol, server, whatever)'. I work in a company where we use all major OSes. If I came up with "hey lets switch to client A for Linux users, client B for windows users and client X…

... and in the darkness bind them. ;-p

Well, if there was a free alternative that would provide all that, at least we would be bound to RMS. (Royal Majesty Sauron?)

I would much prefer that to the secretive doings of Microskype, but you have to sell your alternatives and not underestimate network effects, especially in the network market.

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