How significant is this? I'm sure there are a lot of things that will kill a cancer cell in a petri dish.
Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
41–50 of 104 posts
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#42Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S07356...
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#43Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…
Along the same line as your #3... how are they targeting the ER of only the tumor cells and not normal cells?
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#44Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…
Probably because it's what they were studying which led to the analysis? A drug doesn't have to be unique to be important in understanding side effects...or off-label use if that's how you want to think of it.
Getting funding to study all of them at once is more challenging, so it shouldn't be a surprise that it's constrained to one.
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#45Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…
> Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration Question for you - is this "brain damage" that I often hear results from taking a particular drug the result of intentful downregulation of certain neuronal receptors (e.g., meth -> too much dopamine in synapse -> downregulate dopamine receptors), or is the drug actually killing brain cells/neurotoxic?
1. E.g., cocaine as a strong vasoconstrictor can directly cause cerebral ischemia, causing hypoxic damage to the brain. Acute hypoxic damage is relatively uncommon, but atrophy due to chronic hypoxia is more common. Because the bulk of atrophy in chronic coke users is in some of the most hypoxia-sensitive areas of the brain, it might be the primary mechanism of damage.
2. Opioids can do the same via respiratory depression, even though blood flow to the brain is not impaired. Chronic opioid abusers tend to dose themselves into respiratory depression - and post-mortems show their brains to have ischemic neural damage.
3. Seizures are intrinsically neurotoxic. Damage from other sources (such as above) predisposes to seizure, which can have effects on the remainder of the brain.
4. We generally suspect there is more cell death than downregulation of neuronal receptors. When we look at the basal ganglia of chronic drug users (the dopaminergic neurons involved in the 'reward' circuit), we find atrophy, suggesting actual neuronal loss.
4b. What type of regulatory (e.g., down regulation) change occurs depends on the drug. Some drugs imitate an existing signal (e.g., opioids), so downregulation would be the homeostatic response. Coke and ecstasy stimulate dopamine release and serotonin release respectively, so we can expect a downregulation in receptors, but we may also see an upregulation in the transmitting cell in response to increased "release this signal" demands. Even that depends on the drug in question - amphetamine prompts dopamine release, so the releasing cell runs low and may increase storage levels. Coke prevents reuptake of dopamine, so active concentrations are up but the releasing cell doesn't see a change in its internal dopamine storage levels. Alcohol, on the other hand, is a glutamate blocker, which increases sensitivity to glutamate signals.
5. Opioids have been shown to be directly neurotoxic. It's unclear on whether this is a significant contributor above and beyond the respiratory depression in real life settings. In the lab, though, heroin, heroin metabolites (6-mono-acetyl morphine and morphine), fentanyl, have all been shown to be directly neurotoxic, though not all equivalently so.
6. MDMA is also shown to be directly neurotoxic, and (at least in a rat model) MDMA metabolites are more neurotoxic than MDMA itself.
7. Adulterants, through their toxic effects, also directly fuck up tissues. We see increased activation of cell-suicide pathways when heroin is induced, but we also see that the degree of activation is inversely proportional to the purity of the heroin.
I can probably go on for a while. I'm sorry if the above is a bit rambly, I didn't really stop and outline it as an essay. I hope that sheds some light, though.
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Some randos on the internet believe that you could consume a bottle of loperamide and overcome that inability to get into the brain. In theory that’s true (since the brain barrier is actively pumping it back out and there’s gotta be a limit to that rejection), but I don’t think it’s worked out in practice other than causing massive constipation. It's a medication that gets stolen by drug users which is a bit frustr…
> BNF and Department of Health (England) don't describe addiction to loperamide, but do describe its use as an adjunctive treatment for people trying to come off opioids, which suggests it's not that problematic As someone who suffers from IBS and takes loperamide regularly, while its not necessarily an addiction, I see forums of people (especially on /r/ibs) saying that it causes a dependency. I saw posts where peop…
I've read that loperamide doesn't just quell bowel problems with opioid withdrawal, but that it lessens cognitive symptoms, as well.
Sounds like there might be some active metabolites, or that peripheral opioid receptor activation can affect cognition.
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Medical doctor.
Just curious, how does an MD end up on Hacker News? Edit: I don't mean this in a gatekeeping way, I honestly was just curious to hear an example of how this happens. Do people outside tech have someone in tech mention the site to them? Do they browse and just read the fraction of articles that aren't about something software related?
I got to HN itself ... I don't know how. I delete my account about once a year to try and limit my breadcrumb trail, so I can't really look backwards and say how long I've been here, or what may have gotten me here. IIRC, it was probably due to chasing articles on startups/entrepreneurship, as I seem to think that was over-represented in my early HN reading. But it's probably been about a decade, so take that with a grain of salt.
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#48Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…
> Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Probably because it's what they were studying which led to the analysis? A drug doesn't have to be unique to be important in understanding side effects...or off-label use if that's how you want to think of it. Getting funding to study all of them at once is more challenging, so it shouldn't be a surprise that it's constrained to one.
It's like a study finding that "opioid X" gets you high via mu-opioid receptors. It's not really a finding; it's the null hypothesis.
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#49Several classes of opioids have been shown to cause neuronal degeneration via ATF4 activation. So, key points: 1. Loperamide is not unique. I don't know why these researchers have singled it out. Is it because they heard there's an opioid that doesn't get you high? It only avoids getting you high because it doesn't get into the brain. IF you deliver it to the brain to treat a brain tumor, it will get you high. 2. Pat…
Loperamide can also be cardiotoxic at high dosages [1] which is, I believe, rare among opiods but I am not a doctor. (Googling "morphine cardiotoxicity" is showing me an almost equal amount of articles claiming it causes and protects against. Again, not a doctor.) [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S07356...
Re: Anti-diarrhoea drug drives cancer cells to cell death
#50It costs > 1 billion dollars to bring a drug to market and put it through clinical trials. This means most off-label drug uses like this will never reach cancer patients because the drug patent will expire leaving no backer that can make back the cost (even if the cost is less than a billion for off-label drug use). This situation is similar for most complementary and alternative medicine: there are many compounds shown to be anti-cancerous even beyond test tubes in mouse models and initial studies in humans. But there is nobody able to take them through clinical trials.