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‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

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Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#261

Post by Nacdor »

hackeraccount wrote: post #11

I find youtube recommendations crap because if I watch something on one subject it seems to assume the subject is now the love of my life and proceeds to offer a zillion on just that subject. regarding what the article is talking about ... eh, it seems like they're saying it works fine but sometimes puts up videos whose politics they don't like. Short of going in and removing the stuff you don't like so that other pe…

> if I watch something on one subject it seems to assume the subject is now the love of my life and proceeds to offer a zillion on just that subject.

There was a distinct point in time a couple years ago where this started to happen. Before that, my YouTube feed was always a diverse selection of all the different topics I had ever watched. Now, if I watch one car review my feed is full of car channels. If I watch one political video it fills with politics. Nothing I do seems to affect YouTube's singular focus on whatever topic I've most recently viewed.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#262

Post by floatrock »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #69
qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

It doesn't seem that hard to get out of a pit, even with the account. It just takes a couple of days of browsing of the new type of content, along with maybe clicking "don't recommend this channel"/"not interested" 3-4 times, and the algorithm switches to the new things... The algorithm doesn't care, it just recommends.

> The algorithm doesn't care, it just recommends.

And isn't that terrifying, in the Parable of the Paperclip Maximizer kinda way?

We can make the well-its-your-individual-responsibility bootstraps argument, but that kinda works only if you believe in the supremacy of an individual's autonomy and that the mind can't be hacked or hijacked. Everything from addictive products to the marketing industry shows that isn't the case. The youtube paperclip maximizer is maximizing for your mind's engagement.

We can say "well, it's just feeding people what they want!" But you can say the same thing about airdropping crates of opium onto the streets.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#263

Post by ma2rten »

em500 wrote: post #137
gfxgirl wrote: post #44

I know I'm old but dang for some reason I really dislike recommendations from almost any company. For media I grew up in the 70s and had the TV Guide. I'd look through to see what I wanted to watch, circle some things and then watch. No spying what-so-ever. So, I like for example HN where AFAIK I'm not tracked so much and I choose what I want from the top of the list. Conversely I mostly hate Amazon, Netflix, Amazon…

> So, I like for example HN where AFAIK I'm not tracked so much and I choose what I want from the top of the list. The top of the list is the product of some recommendation algorithm. Clicking through https://news.ycombinator.com/newest , there were some 900 submissions in the past 24h; you probably chose from a small subset of that.

It's not personalized.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#264

Post by dspillett »

qwerty1234599 wrote: post #157

If you want a glimpse of the average person's youtube experience, open the site in incognito and go to the "trending" tab. It's a completely different site depending on what you initially search for when you start using it. The problem is, 80% of youtube userbase never really typed a search query for anything in the first place, and as a result the stuff they get recommended and watch is pure shit.

> the average person

An average person, not the average person. They'll at very least target the content by country, and if you have a fixed or rarely varying IP address (which I do at home, and may public wireless APs do in my experience) they can be more fine-grained than that and give recommendations based on what people in your more local area have searched for recently.

I had an Italian friend staying in my spare room for about half a year some time ago (hassles with previous landlord, took her and her fellow a while to save to the point where they could afford a place together). For many months afterwards I would get Italian language recommendations and adverts from youtube and others, even in incognito on a fresh device.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#265

Post by soledades »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

Alternative Option:

Turn off watch history, then only the videos you explicitly like will affect your recommendations.

Bonus Points: Use extension to turn off recommended panel on side of videos, then you only see recommendations when you go to home screen.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#266

Post by wolco2 »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #257
scrollaway wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just prefix any URL with this exactly: https://web.archive.org/save/ Example: https://web.archive.org/save/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v... If it's already saved, it'll do a new snapshot, but I believe the archive is smart enough not to duplicate saved youtube videos.

I tried this and it keeps saying job failed.

Same issue. Love the concept of saving through a GET link.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#267

Post by Allower »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

You think you are anonymous when you don't sign in?? BAAHAHAHAHA - might as well sign in and allow all tracking..

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#268

Post by vizzier »

crispyambulance wrote: post #190
qwerty1234599 wrote: post #157

If you want a glimpse of the average person's youtube experience, open the site in incognito and go to the "trending" tab. It's a completely different site depending on what you initially search for when you start using it. The problem is, 80% of youtube userbase never really typed a search query for anything in the first place, and as a result the stuff they get recommended and watch is pure shit.

We don't actually know what the "ingredients" are for recommendations. I don't think it's possible to draw conclusions from one's own experience with youtube recommendations and extrapolate it to others or to any sort of judgement about the quality of the algorithms. We are simply not privy to what, exactly, youtube is doing. I think it's wise to heed Guillaume Chaslot's warnings. In the same way that youtube exploit…

The stuff is what the stuff is brother. [1]

[1] https://youtu.be/ajGX7odA87k?t=945

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#269

Post by Allower »

H8crilA wrote: post #27

Protip if this annoys you: go to myactivity.google.com, delete everything and pause all further collection. Now only your subscriptions and likes count (and maybe a few other things that are not considered "activity"). It's so much better! Did it once and now I don't want to go back.

Really? I found they just recommend videos I have already watched along with the usual "Trending" garbage. I have to manually check my subscriptions to actually find the content I want to watch, its beyond frustrating.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#270

Post by shmageggy »

KaiserPro wrote: post #138
qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

The problem I've found is that it takes some tuning to get it to stop recommending horrid clickbait, extremist recruiting fodder or just copyright fraud. You have to actively click "not I don't like this" when you see something low quality. This means that the average joe will be spammed by low quality shite, where as the power user will get decent recommendation. I do have a container tab just for youtube, to avoid…

Yes, this is the problem, and the article nails it. I just did all experiment to proceed it to myself too: open YouTube in a private tab, search for anything gaming related, click something random on the front page, and bam: in my recommendations "Ronda Rousey destroys feminist". Of course once you click that you're down a black hole of Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson.
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