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‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

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Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#81

Post by dkersten »

kryogen1c wrote: post #26
hackeraccount wrote: post #11

I find youtube recommendations crap because if I watch something on one subject it seems to assume the subject is now the love of my life and proceeds to offer a zillion on just that subject. regarding what the article is talking about ... eh, it seems like they're saying it works fine but sometimes puts up videos whose politics they don't like. Short of going in and removing the stuff you don't like so that other pe…

>it seems to assume the subject is now the love of my life christ, no kidding. this was my first clue that google has fundamentally changed as a company and it was time for me to leave. ive been using gmail since it came out and watching YouTube with a signed-in, non adblocked experience for years. the algorithim doest give a SHIT. if i watch one "The Office" clip, thats suddenly 60-80% of my feed despite the fact th…

They have no problems showing me ads for exploitive garbage like raid shadow legends or some other shit I will never ever ever install or buy. And then they tell us they use the data for serving “more relevant” adverts? I call BS.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#82

Post by jgalt212 »

curiousllama wrote: post #9

I literally only watch one type of video on YouTube (chess games). The entirety of my recommendations are Jordan Peterson. Wtf

And then if you watch one Jordan Peterson video, all of sudden Youtube thinks you are a Proud Boy.

another interesting example from the past, I watched a few science/nature focused videos on Antarctica. Then youtube decided I wanted to see Antarctica conspiracy videos about aliens, secret buried worlds, and Nazi holdouts.

That being said, I think the recs have become much cleaner lately. i.e. no more Russia Today videos in my feed.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#83

Post by megameter »

The ultimate result of the YT algorithm for me has been that the videos are increasingly a jukebox for background noise. Sometimes the noise is music(as in the popular "lofi hiphop study beats" or old anime soundtracks, or 80's pop hits) and sometimes the noise is man talks into camera(as in tech reviewers, music theory teachers, and video essayists) but it's basically inoffensive, interchangable background with an occasional moment that makes me pay attention or even comment.

By their metrics it probably looks great: lots of watch time! Interaction! But it's basically leaving the possibilities unfulfilled.

Now, I remember early days YT as well. It was much better at getting you circulating through a niche, but it did have the problem of getting stuck in a cycle of the same few videos. Modern YT just gradually moves you towards popular categories. Occasionally it does surprise, as with the months where "Steamed Hams" edits were recommended daily, or more recently, the train station ghost story song with no title. But that's mostly the exception.

Edit: And a big part of why I seem to have this feed is simply because I have "liked and subscribed" to channels in these categories. If you do that, the recommender biases heavily back towards them.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#84

Post by jimktrains2 »

gaudat wrote: post #45
kryogen1c wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it seems to assume the subject is now the love of my life christ, no kidding. this was my first clue that google has fundamentally changed as a company and it was time for me to leave. ive been using gmail since it came out and watching YouTube with a signed-in, non adblocked experience for years. the algorithim doest give a SHIT. if i watch one "The Office" clip, thats suddenly 60-80% of my feed despite the fact th…

Oh the ads. I cannot underestimate the annoyance it has caused to viewers. Seeing the numerous memes making fun of those asset flip adware turned "games" makes me die a little inside. Now I actively push my normie friends to install uBlock Origin on their devices. And Vanced or NewPipe when it worked.

The midrolls are nearly always in an awful spot in the video and especially when watching something on a serious topic so jaring.

At least most television ads are placed in a slot designed for ads to be there. Though I still find them jaring for shows that arent up-beat.

To be honest, tv ads are the reason we dont watch a lot of TV anymore. The ad:content ratio is too high, and youtube has definitely as high or higher without an adblocker.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#85

Post by H8crilA »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #64
H8crilA wrote: post #27

Protip if this annoys you: go to myactivity.google.com, delete everything and pause all further collection. Now only your subscriptions and likes count (and maybe a few other things that are not considered "activity"). It's so much better! Did it once and now I don't want to go back.

The scary thing is that I don’t have any type of Google account at all, yet they clearly still track me and amass a profile of my history and choices.

Yeah, the EU tried to fix that and now we have to accept cookies everywhere and nothing really changed.

IMHO it's better to have an account and configure it. The GDPR-like approach is much better than the do-you-mind-cookies-banners approach.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#86

Post by yowlingcat »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

> But people who watch stupid and destructive stuff (even once) are doomed because they are going to get the same and worse kind of content recommended over and over. This is a particularly underestimated social problem indeed.

Indeed. It's a bad enough problem that one wonders whether the company is liable for its effects upon society.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#87

Post by ceejayoz »

Retric wrote: post #54
gaudat wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like the media company is taking the driver seat of your mind and decides you need to watch these videos over and over. Where have individualism and creativity gone?.

The search function still exists, recommendations are really aimed at low effort engagement. YouTube recommendations are only aiming for the equivalent quality of channel surfing when most user generated content is really bad. Sadly, it’s largely your own history that clogs the recommendations. The less you use a recommendation engine the more relevant it becomes.

> The search function still exists...

The search function recommends results that match your query. It's part of the same system!

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#88

Post by fabatka »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #33
barrkel wrote: post #5

I find YT does a gradient ascent into more popular videos. I start out listening to a song with 1000 views, I get recommended 10k view songs, then 100k, and before you know it it's back in the mainstream. There's no way to surf a niche, to hunt in a pile of bin ends. I imagine it's similar for conspiracy stuff. It'll point you in the direction of the most convincing nonsense.

If conspiracy stuff were the same way you describe music, you would eventually end up with the mainstream opinion, no?

Perhaps in that case the algorithm finds the local extremum, not the global.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#89

Post by murgindrag »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #69
qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

It doesn't seem that hard to get out of a pit, even with the account. It just takes a couple of days of browsing of the new type of content, along with maybe clicking "don't recommend this channel"/"not interested" 3-4 times, and the algorithm switches to the new things... The algorithm doesn't care, it just recommends.

I want Youtube to recommend educational videos, a la Extra History and 3B1B. That's most of what I watch on Youtube.

Youtube recommends stupid crap based on what other people like.

If I watch one stupid video not in incognito, ALL of the recommendations become stupid videos because those videos have better metrics. Youtube actively guides me away from educational content.

Even within educational videos, if I click on a click-baity channel once, that channel dominates things I've watched MANY more time. It seems to all be about click-through metrics.

I've never had Youtube recommend really upscale educational content like Zach Star before. It's quality stuff, but you gotta find it yourself.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#90

Post by bArray »

The recommendations are now almost completely inescapable if you want to continue using their service. They recently did away with email notifications for new content [1] and now the RSS export feature for subscriptions has been removed [2].

I refuse to interface with their algorithm, so I've begun hunting down alternative video hosts and the personal sites of the creators I can find and am preparing to leave their platform.

Alternatives are now very viable, with a platform such as BitChute soon to offer functionality such as live streaming [3].

[1] https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/08/15/youtube-will-end-em...

[2] https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/85275454?hl=en

[3] https://www.bitchute.com/funding/livestream/

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