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Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#11

Post by namenotrequired »

rasz wrote: post #6
Danieru wrote: post #2

> As Daniel Boffey notes for the Guardian, using a metal detector for anything other than scientific research is outlawed in France. Oh wow, there must be a big story behind this law. How could something so mundane as a metal detector be banned? The article says he "stole these from sites", is that implying he went to active dig sites or public attractions? There is so much to unpack here. Are ground penetrating rada…

Same BS law in Poland. No one bothers to look for stuff, but if you happen to find anything you are automatically a criminal.

Really? Is there no chance to report the find legally?

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#13

Post by jeltz »

Aeolun wrote: post #3

Wait, he went around different sites all around two countries digging this stuff up, and officials were surprised he didn’t turn it over to the state? Nobody could be bothered to retrieve these artifacts in the first place. I don’t see how the state has (or should have) any more inherent right to them than this guy. The least they could do is pay him for the objects. Apparently they’re worth 700k!

Removing the treasures from their context removes a lot of the scientific value of the finds. A coin tells us that the much more if you know where it was buried.

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#14

Post by jeltz »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #12

Am I understanding this correctly that the place he “looted” from was the ground? As in he found and dug up coins? And this is so heinous an action that metal detectors are banned?

Yes, because if you remove treasures from their context we you often destroy an important archeological site. Many European countries do not want looters to destroy their heritages and windows into history.

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#15

Post by jeltz »

namenotrequired wrote: post #11
rasz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same BS law in Poland. No one bothers to look for stuff, but if you happen to find anything you are automatically a criminal.

Really? Is there no chance to report the find legally?

Yes and no. You can report finds and get a reward in most countries but you might risk incriminating yourself at the same time in countries where metal detectors are banned. If it is a one off you are fine, but if you go around finding tons of coins all over the country and reporting them it will look suspicious.

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#16

Post by frankfrankfrank »

Aeolun wrote: post #3

Wait, he went around different sites all around two countries digging this stuff up, and officials were surprised he didn’t turn it over to the state? Nobody could be bothered to retrieve these artifacts in the first place. I don’t see how the state has (or should have) any more inherent right to them than this guy. The least they could do is pay him for the objects. Apparently they’re worth 700k!

Mit to mention that the fact that European states are so authoritarian and immoral about it incentivized theft and deception. I wouldn’t have even bothered reporting anything if I were him, and this case seems to prove the point why. They’ve likely also note through their draconian policies lost the information on where the finds were made and all associated historical knowledge, e.g., the coins of a certain type would indicate the location of possible troop movement that was not clear before.

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#17

Post by 1996 »

jeltz wrote: post #14
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #12

Am I understanding this correctly that the place he “looted” from was the ground? As in he found and dug up coins? And this is so heinous an action that metal detectors are banned?

Yes, because if you remove treasures from their context we you often destroy an important archeological site. Many European countries do not want looters to destroy their heritages and windows into history.

So they leave valuable shit in the ground, and act all offended when someone uses an "illegal" metal detector?

Aint gonna work!

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#18

Post by rasz »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #10
rasz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same BS law in Poland. No one bothers to look for stuff, but if you happen to find anything you are automatically a criminal.

No, if you do it for personal profit. Its not unreasonable for the rules to be something more than the playground "Finders, Keepers". Grow up. Further, Poland has one of the highest rates of metal detector usage.

We perform a lot of other illegal activities, doesnt change the law.

(Ustawa z dnia 23 lipca 2003 r. o ochronie zabytków i opiece nad zabytkami (Dz. U. 2003 Nr 162 poz. 1568) defines metal detector usage a felony, 2018 amendment makes it a crime.

https://histmag.org/Wykrywacz-metali-nowe-prawo-w-Polsce-a-p...

TLDR: illegal, ~100K people do it anyway.

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#19

Post by AbrahamParangi »

jeltz wrote: post #14
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #12

Am I understanding this correctly that the place he “looted” from was the ground? As in he found and dug up coins? And this is so heinous an action that metal detectors are banned?

Yes, because if you remove treasures from their context we you often destroy an important archeological site. Many European countries do not want looters to destroy their heritages and windows into history.

Interesting. There seems to be a major cultural difference on this.

On the one hand, the argument is that individuals collecting artifacts destroys the scientific utility of the excavation site. On the other hand, someone doing the work to find coins seems better than nobody doing that work and having them lay in the ground.

I wonder if there are more instances of this trade-off between potential good and immediate good.

Re: Officials seize 27k artifacts looted by a single French treasure hunter

#20

Post by mulcyber »

Danieru wrote: post #2

> As Daniel Boffey notes for the Guardian, using a metal detector for anything other than scientific research is outlawed in France. Oh wow, there must be a big story behind this law. How could something so mundane as a metal detector be banned? The article says he "stole these from sites", is that implying he went to active dig sites or public attractions? There is so much to unpack here. Are ground penetrating rada…

> How could something so mundane as a metal detector be banned?

Obviously it's not...

The actual law says: "Nul ne peut utiliser du matériel permettant la détection d'objets métalliques, à l'effet de recherches de monuments et d'objets pouvant intéresser la préhistoire, l'histoire, l'art ou l'archéologie, sans avoir, au préalable, obtenu une autorisation administrative délivrée en fonction de la qualification du demandeur ainsi que de la nature et des modalités de la recherche." [Code du patrimoine Article L542-1]

"No one can use material allowing detection of metal objects to look for monuments and objects which can interest prehistory, history, art or archeology, without having, beforehand, obtained an administrative authorization delivered depending the qualifications of the applicant and the nature and modalities of the search."

So basically you cannot use a metal detector to do illegal archeological search. This law is weird though, since it actually condemn the intent and not the act. I'm no lawyer but I'm guessing it's pretty hard to condemn anyone with this law since anyone thoughtful enough can hide his intent (or at least prevent producing any proof of such intent).

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...

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