Products like Slack, Figma and VSCode will not benefit from this kind of technology. Get off of your old school horse. Not all websites are just websites. Performance is not determined solely by load time.
Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
371–380 of 573 posts
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#372Most of the comments here are along the lines of: this is old tech! But this isn’t really about the tech, it as much a productivity hack that allows people to be much closer to that old fashioned concept of a full stack developer This is what has allowed Basecamp to create Hey with a team just a fraction of the size of their competitors
Somewhere along the way Mythical Man Month was turned from a cautionary tale into a competition, and it only ever seems to happen once VC gets their mitts on a company. Does it really take a team of 800 engineers to maintain your fancy todo list app, rather than your focussed team of 10 or 20? What are all of those people doing except piling on organisational cruft so the business has no choice but to over-encumber i…
These companies might hire people as an edge against any future competition.
Talented engineers are tied up doing menial tasks but getting paid $300k/year, cheaper than having to compete?
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does Hotwire compare to Phoenix LiveView?
> How does Hotwire compare to Phoenix LiveView? It seems the same to me. It's much different based on a preliminary reading of Hotwire's docs. Live View uses websockets for everything. If you want to update a tiny text label in some HTML, it uses websockets to push the diff of the content that changed. However you could use LV in a way that replaces Hotwire Turbo Drive, which is aimed at page transitions, such as goi…
Fwiw, you can use long polling for LiveView if you wanted. That could completely remove websockets as everything happens over http.
Hotwire will benefit from caching better than LiveView, because frames are distinct URLs. But I haven't personally need that.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conventional wisdom is discrimination against privileged groups such as white men is less offensive because they’ve endured so much less of it. On one hand, it’s true. It’s part of white privilege which is tangible. On the other hand, however less often people in a privileged class are realistically impacted by discrimination, it’s still > 0.0%. Since it usually costs nothing more to include everyone it seems useful.…
Racist people like you make peaceful protests and working for change against racism so much harder. You're just out for revenge and your rhetoric shows it. Edit: I've had just about enough of people using "white privilege" to justify violence and blatant discrimination because "they haven't been exposed to enough ". Its just another way to justify racism. Plenty of white people live in poverty. Its not ok in either d…
Did you read their entire comment? It sounds like you agree with them
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read it as a self-deprecating dig at his / her younger self.
Exactly, it is kind of like Clarke's first law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws Youth are always writing off the oldies - I did it, and now that I am old, I see it happening to me - and that is ok - we need that passion to shake things up, even if they end-up eerily similar to the way things were done before...
In computer science, it's particularly tempting for the yutes to write off the oldies, because technologies change so rapidly — I sometimes frighten the kids by mentioning that I got my first degree before the WWW was invented, and I'm far from retirement age.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#376As a web developer 20+ years, I'm just happy to see how much job security I have since none of you are smart enough to manage a React app and Webpack config.
> As a web developer 20+ years
Wow, that's dedication!
> I'm just happy to see how much job security I have
I'm glad for you!
> none of you are smart enough ...
Now I feel bad about myself!
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and now it's suddenly a new technology/approach I don't think I've ever seen DHH or the Basecamp crew advertise any of this type of stuff as some groundbreaking new approach that nobody has ever tried before. On the contrary, I usually see them talking about how those old ways of doing web development were actually better in many ways, which is why they're pushing to move away from the current "everything is an SPA…
>I don't think I've ever seen DHH or the Basecamp crew advertise any of this type of stuff as some groundbreaking new approach that nobody has ever tried before Not disagreeing with the rest of the stuff. But they literally call it "NEW MAGIC" per DHH's tweet.
Yeah that's fair
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#378Hyper Text was a very good way to link knowledge, but the Markup Languge evolved in the opposite way
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#379I get the feeling it will draw a bit of criticism from this crowd. IMO it’s fine to experiment with tech like this, but I have to wonder where sending HTML fragments over Websockets instead of HTTP falls apart. Curious to hear about the success/horror stories in a few months/years from any adopters :)
It's proved technology .NET's Blazor (server based) uses this.
Um... Blazor hasn’t been used in any significant scale, and where it has been deployed, the websocket has been a bottleneck to performance.
Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
It falls apart in environments where WebSockets doesn't work, unless there's a fallback mechanism using XHR.
yeah... fallback is not a problem, you can always long-poll as socket.io has done for years
It's great when people do use an automatic fallback, and we've had reliable methods for that since the 1990s. I've seen WebSockets webapps where they don't bother with a fallback, though.