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Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

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Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#311

Post by arvindamirtaa »

rajangdavis wrote: post #262

A few years ago, I had this bright idea of updating a site I maintained to be a single page application (SPA). I was very inspired by this site ( https://pocketjavascript.com/blog/2015/11/23/introducing-pok... ) and thought it would make the user experience a lot better by making the site easier to navigate. I preloaded data such that a user could navigate via search or clicking through some drill-down menus without…

>This is a killer feature to have in Rails

Hotwire is backend agnostic.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#312

Post by tamrix »

cyrialize wrote: post #261
sourc3 wrote: post #120

This is so exciting to see, especially for older folk like me. Almost 20 years ago, one of my professors told us before graduation that hot tech is mostly about the idea pendulum swinging back and forth. I immediately chalked it up to 65+ above white wise men snobbery. However, this is exactly that. We started with static pages, then came Ajax and Asp.net and the open source variants, then we went full SPA, now we ar…

I completely agree with this. For reference, I'm a relatively new developer - 3.5+ years of experience in my first developer position. At the beginning of college everyone was SUPER into NoSQL. All my friends were using it, SQL was slow, etc. Nearing the end of college and the beginning of my job I began seeing articles saying why NoSQL wasn't the best, why SQL is good for some things over NoSQL, etc. Technology is c…

Sql has always been faster in querying. Faster in development though is another thing depending on the project and experience.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#313

Post by arvindamirtaa »

Trasmatta wrote: post #111
naikrovek wrote: post #93

amazing. This used to be called /cgi-bin/ with templates and XMLHttpRequest (a Microsoft invention initially supported only in IE then adopted by everyone) and now it's suddenly a new technology/approach but with a new name so you're not ridiculed for using it? I gotta give them credit for revisiting server-side page assembling though; moving application logic and templating mostly to the front end was a HUGE mistake…

> and now it's suddenly a new technology/approach I don't think I've ever seen DHH or the Basecamp crew advertise any of this type of stuff as some groundbreaking new approach that nobody has ever tried before. On the contrary, I usually see them talking about how those old ways of doing web development were actually better in many ways, which is why they're pushing to move away from the current "everything is an SPA…

>I don't think I've ever seen DHH or the Basecamp crew advertise any of this type of stuff as some groundbreaking new approach that nobody has ever tried before

Not disagreeing with the rest of the stuff. But they literally call it "NEW MAGIC" per DHH's tweet.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#314

Post by arvindamirtaa »

yopo wrote: post #274
dorkandstormy wrote: post #206

Am I the only one who was very, very surprised when the screencast immediately jumped into Rails? There's no mention of Rails anywhere on the landing page.

Ya same here. I've been doing web dev for 13 years and was genuinely looking forward to this magical HTML only solution of theirs but left feeling deceived after finding out it's rails.

It's not rails. It's very specifically backend agnostic.

Source: I've been using turbolinks and stimulus with Django for a good year and a half.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#315

Post by deergomoo »

vasachi wrote: post #130
methyl wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the reasons SPA aren't going anywhere: trying to handle all the user microinteractions on the server is great when you leave next to it, but it falls apart when your users are spread across the world, especially if it's not western-ish world with fast internet connections.

Huh? How does SPA help here? JSON payloads don't go faster over the wire than html.

Surely a JSON payload is almost always going to be considerably smaller than the contents of that payload laid out in an entire HTML document?

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#316

Post by hugi »

mywittyname wrote: post #285
ballenf wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a chuckle out of Apple M1 chip touting having shared video memory as a big step forward. (Which it is, but is still amusing to me how it might have sounded like a groundbreaking innovation to a layperson.)

Apple takes Cue From Original Xbox with Latest Chipset.

Or; Apple takes cue from own Macintosh IIsi from three decades ago?

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#317

Post by arvindamirtaa »

jshen wrote: post #246
OJFord wrote: post #83

'HTML over the wire' is an unfortunate tagline, but it does actually seem interesting, I'd suggest looking at the 'Turbo' docs before reacting. I have thought in the past I wish I could have a frameworky component-style frontend, but where the component is HTML rendered by my rust (or whatever) backend. This would seem to get me a lot closer to that.

Yes, I’m curious how hard it is to get this working with a different backend stack. I’d love to have this in Go.

Getting turbo is trivial on any backend. Just include the js.

Stimulus is also not any different from any other javascript you'll write. There's no need for any kind of scaffolding from the backend stack except for some features - and those aren't particularly hard to implement either.

Source: Using Turbolinks & Stimulus js with Django.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#318

Post by arvindamirtaa »

modernerd wrote: post #273

Pure JS developers trying to jump off the JS train have a few decent choices now: - Elixir / Phoenix - .NET / Blazor - Laravel / Livewire - Rails / Hotwire Or hold on for the JS ecosystem to figure out good patterns that balance performance/maintainability (React Server Components look ok, and will probably trickle into Next.js for those who want a framework). Does one of the above stand out as a good thing to learn…

It's really not Rails + Hotwire. It's any backend + hotwire.

It works just fine with Django.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#319

Post by bryanrasmussen »

mruniverse wrote: post #291
epistasis wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a front end engineer, but it always seemed crazy to me. I remember testing out the Google Web Toolkit when it came out more than a decade ago, and the craziest thing about it to me wasn't the Java --> JavaScript compilation, it was that the server just dumped an empty page and filled everything in with JavaScript on the client. Then, remember the awful awful #! URLs? Atrocious, and seemed like obviously a ter…

Around the time that GWT came out, offshoring was a big thing. And most of the contractors only knew Java. Also Java was the trusted language and javascript was not.

The only big GWT project I've ever been on was a governmental project that I won't go into (because it's Danish and I would have to describe a bunch of stuff that everyone in Denmark knows and nobody outside would probably care about), but the company providing it was porting their Java version to JavaScript and had a significantly large codebase to leverage.

Re: Hotwire: HTML over the Wire

#320

Post by danjac »

So far, this looks very much tied to some Rails gems : documentation for installing outside of Rails is pretty much non-existent, I guess to be expected for a beta. My issue with Turbolinks/Stimulus is really that it's developed pretty much behind closed doors at Basecamp and we maybe get a shiny new release every few years, instead of being developed as a more open source project with incremental improvements and input from a wider group of contributors with diverse needs and insights than one small team at one company.
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