Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Voat Is Shutting Down

voat.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 671 posts

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#521

Post by Throwaway1771 »

ninkendo wrote: post #295
Throwaway1771 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many cases, the free speech (shocking stuff) is a litmus test for the compromised nature of the platform. It's important, historically, to test this regularly, and thoroughly. Voat/4Chan et al MUST be viewed in this context. Must!

> Voat/4Chan et al MUST be viewed in this context. Nah. It really musn’t. We’re all a lot happier without you on our platforms. Qanon can always pay for his own hosting.

What I mean to say is: those aren't "your platforms" - and you DON'T speak for the entire internet.

Even if you feel that way.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#522

Post by tootie »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #120
_opc6 wrote: post #88

I've said this before and got downvoted for it. But if companies allow extremists on their platforms then the moderates will leave. It's not so much a paradox but a cause and effect.

What almost every comment about Voat here misses though is that when you start a competitor clone to an incumbent like Voat did, there’s literally zero reason for most people to join. The only people who have an incentive are people banned from the incumbent. You see this all the time. As a kid I posted on a forum Opa-Ages that was just weirdos banned from Gaming-Ages (NeoGAF). This isn’t so much about free speech an…

Not necessarily. Reddit was riding the coattails of Digg for a long time until Digg actively alienated it's user base with a redesign. Also, MySpace losing to Facebook.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#523

Post by leetcrew »

mr_toad wrote: post #153
Pfhreak wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is called the "Gish Gallop". The idea being that I can come up with many, many more questions that are hypothetical, but that require more energy to answer than they take to ask. Often times the person will combine this with a carefully worded question that has to be unwound by the counter-debater. Like, "Knowing that this will cost working class Americans jobs, why do you want X?" Well... X doesn't co…

> Like, "Knowing that this will cost working class Americans jobs, why do you want X?" A good politician would never answer that question. Instead they would answer a different question that they already had a good answer to. “I think the important thing to remember here is...” This tactic works just as well online. Never directly answer a question you don’t like. Always stay on message. By the time you finish your a…

I don't think this is a good tactic when you have an audience that is even halfway awake. when I see this happen on a topic I'm not very familiar with, my first reaction is to think it was an incisive question that OP realized they did not have a good response to.

I find that there is usually a fairly small number of "gotcha" questions that come up over and over for a particular topic. the "trans people in competitive sports" question in this thread is a good example. what makes these types of questions rhetorically effective is that they're usually at least half-rooted in truth. in my experience it's more effective to recognize the likely gotchas and have a response ready, or better yet, preempt it entirely. at the very least, you should explain why you're not answering the question, lest it appear that you are the one arguing in bad faith. you have to keep in mind that you're not just trying to convince your interlocutor but also your audience.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#524

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

px43 wrote: post #146

JFC that entire comment section is about blaming the Jews and using some pretty fucking horrific slurs to do it. Let that trash pile burn. Fuck those guys and anyone who would give pieces of shit like that a platform to spread their hatred into the world.

I love that, at the end, he justifies not naming-and-shaming the angel who pulled out by quoting... scripture, and claiming to take the high, spiritual road, while this is the giant, flaming trash-fire-visible-from-space raging behind him.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#525

Post by verroq »

ashtonkem wrote: post #476
verroq wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Always remember that "free speech" is 100% about the right to say what you want and not be prosecuted for it No I don’t remember. You can have “free speech” except the social consequences are that your neighbours lynch you in the streets. No I don’t recall it like that. Free speech has always been absolute because the majority opinion is immune from social consequences. It is the minority opinion that requires prote…

Aside from the extreme hypothetical you made up, there are other laws against lynching, you know. That has nothing to do with free speech.

Lynching has always been a crime and that’s why nobody was lynched ever. The mob already has protection because their numbers. It is everyone but the mob that needs the protection.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#526

Post by mariusor »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #120
_opc6 wrote: post #88

I've said this before and got downvoted for it. But if companies allow extremists on their platforms then the moderates will leave. It's not so much a paradox but a cause and effect.

What almost every comment about Voat here misses though is that when you start a competitor clone to an incumbent like Voat did, there’s literally zero reason for most people to join. The only people who have an incentive are people banned from the incumbent. You see this all the time. As a kid I posted on a forum Opa-Ages that was just weirdos banned from Gaming-Ages (NeoGAF). This isn’t so much about free speech an…

> So, all the times you’ve said this before, did you ever pitch a solution?

The solution is to attract small communities off reddit. There are countless decent communities on reddit that have issues with the vast majority of the website outside their niche interest. If each of these small communities will have their own little place to discuss and share ideas without having the Damocles sword of the larger reddit assholery and bad design over their heads, I feel like there's a chance they'll move to a different platform.

I am planning such an alternative to reddit that targets these small communities. I hope it will actually be useful to people.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#527

Post by amanaplanacanal »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #462
piokoch wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there is some middle ground between antisemitism and following what mainstream loves the a given point of time. And right now if someone dares to stick outside mainstream views this is considered hate speech, anti-XXX, etc. Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport…

I love how, in a screed about "censorship killing good faith arguments", you make 2 incendiary claims with no sources to back them up. You're doing the thing, you're the bad faith actor . Here, have an actual source regarding women competing in women's sports. Minus transphobic dog whistling. [0][1][2] Repetition legitimizes and it's way less effort to "have discussions" then actually do the work in debunking them. W…

Excellent sources, thank you.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#528

Post by likeclockwork »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #462
piokoch wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there is some middle ground between antisemitism and following what mainstream loves the a given point of time. And right now if someone dares to stick outside mainstream views this is considered hate speech, anti-XXX, etc. Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport…

I love how, in a screed about "censorship killing good faith arguments", you make 2 incendiary claims with no sources to back them up. You're doing the thing, you're the bad faith actor . Here, have an actual source regarding women competing in women's sports. Minus transphobic dog whistling. [0][1][2] Repetition legitimizes and it's way less effort to "have discussions" then actually do the work in debunking them. W…

You do know that people are not required to take hormones to be considered transgender right?

It's not a medical state, it is a social one.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#529

Post by rchaud »

whereistimbo wrote: post #59
tzs wrote: post #54

Most of the original Voat groups were groups that has been kicked off of Reddit, but then people there made groups that corresponded to groups that were still on Reddit, like /v/science and /v/movies. Reading those is quite an experience. On /v/science right now there is a submission about dark matter and MOND [1], which was also discussed today on HN [2]. The title of the Voat submission will give you a good idea of…

Why I suddenly felt like voat is a psychological science experiment?

In a way, it is. It's the perfect embodiment of "careful what you wish for", which is referencing people's inability to anticipate unintended consequences. Every HN post about Patreon or Youtube banning somebody leads to lengthy treatises about free speech.

Well, here's Voat. All free speech, all the time. What's that, bigots have taken over the platform and chased out all the non-bigots? Who could have seen this coming?

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#530

Post by sonotathrowaway »

ashtonkem wrote: post #247
jcims wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. It was so on-the-nose I wasn't entirely convinced that everything I was reading was authentic. Obviously that type of person exists but some of the conversations seemed performative.

It's hard to say, but it does seem like the pathway from edgelord to actual nazi is disturbingly short and straight. Even if a lot of that content wasn't authentic, there is a non-trivial chance that they'll come to believe it eventually.

“Ironic nazis” aren’t a thing, they’re just nazis. The original nazis used “irony” and “edgelord” recruiting tactics in the same way that the modern neo-nazi does, with the same intents and purposes. There’s no difference in the tactics, just like there’s no difference in the contingent of concerned free-speech absolutists convinced that we need to listen to their “jokes” and take them in stride as they advance their radicalization campaigns. The “irony” is important, because it allows their recruits to performatively voice their hatred in a safe manner, much like a child riding a bike with training wheels. The goal of radicalization is to move them away from the irony, but keep the hatred.

https://www.thewrap.com/daily-stormer-founder-ironic-nazis-a...

Post reply on HN