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Voat Is Shutting Down

voat.co

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Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#421

Post by mtberatwork »

berryjerry wrote: post #266
raldi wrote: post #84

Moderated communities beat unmoderated ones on any metric you can name. Always have, always will. Nobody wants to drink at a pub that won't throw out rude patrons.

This is dead on correct. The problem is online most people don't have to hear what you say, they can just not subscribe or not follow you and never hear a word of what you said. This is why over-moderation on the big tech sites like Reddit, Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook is so frustrating. It goes beyond kicking someone out of the bar to not allowing someone to open a bar. And they get their moderation wrong, and I m…

> It goes beyond kicking someone out of the bar to not allowing someone to open a bar.

This analogy doesn't work. Anyone can open their own "bars" on the Web. Reddit and Voat are the "bars" here. Voat was created because they were kicked off of Reddit. Voat even mimics Reddit in terms of functionality.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#422

Post by nicoburns »

pjc50 wrote: post #333
piokoch wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there is some middle ground between antisemitism and following what mainstream loves the a given point of time. And right now if someone dares to stick outside mainstream views this is considered hate speech, anti-XXX, etc. Can we discuss if overweight people should pay more for sits in a plane? Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport…

> Can we discuss if a trans male who identifies herself to be a woman should be allowed to take part in female sport competition (box, running)? Trans woman ; trans men would be competing in the male competitions, and seem to be invisible in the whole trans debate anyway. The problem with this is that it's almost entirely based on prejudice and people saying things that turn out not to be true, along with vague biolo…

> trans men would be competing in the male competitions, and seem to be invisible in the whole trans debate anyway.

Something that was pointed out to me recently that I thought was quite insightful. The greater societal acceptance of trans men compared to trans women seems to parallel the greater societal acceptance of cis women presenting in a masculine way compared to cis men presenting in a feminine way.

Which leads to the interesting idea that the key to societal acceptance of trans women may be widening what is considered socially acceptable for cis men.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#423

Post by Recurecur »

ninkendo wrote: post #355
throwaway3699 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming into contact with bad ideas is the risk we take to participate in any conversation. Every time people forget, the outcome is some horrible event like genocide.

[flagged]

Thanks, I hadn't run across that writeup, though well aware of the issue.

This was a little gem in that article, seemingly highly relevant now:

> However, Rawls qualifies this with the assertion that under extraordinary circumstances in which constitutional safeguards do not suffice to ensure the security of the tolerant and the institutions of liberty, tolerant society has a reasonable right of self-preservation against acts of intolerance that would limit the liberty of others under a just constitution, and this supersedes the principle of tolerance. This should be done, however, only to preserve equal liberty – i.e., the liberties of the intolerant should be limited only insofar as they demonstrably limit the liberties of others: "While an intolerant sect does not itself have title to complain of intolerance, its freedom should be restricted only when the tolerant sincerely and with reason believe that their own security and that of the institutions of liberty are in danger."

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#424

Post by meheleventyone »

cbozeman wrote: post #141
ignoranceprior wrote: post #4

Voat was founded as a neutral free-speech platform. After alt-right extremists were booted off reddit, they found a new home there. The site was bombarded by /pol/ chan culture, and after that nobody else of other political persuasions really wanted to join. Kind of like that "paradox of intolerance" meme. Free speech platforms usually end up becoming extremist platforms. I remember going on voat a couple years ago a…

Its not that free speech platforms are destined to fail, its anonymity. You're not responsible for your words. That's why these fail. Notice I use my real name here on this website. Not a pseudonym. Whatever I say here, I would say to you in front of your face. Same as I do on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit and the other areas I post. I've always used my real name. I'll always use my real name. We don't require anyo…

Actually as far as anyone else is concerned you're still using a pseudonym. We can't verify your real name nor do we actually know it since you use an abbreviation.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#425

Post by flatiron »

mxxx wrote: post #302
tzs wrote: post #54

Most of the original Voat groups were groups that has been kicked off of Reddit, but then people there made groups that corresponded to groups that were still on Reddit, like /v/science and /v/movies. Reading those is quite an experience. On /v/science right now there is a submission about dark matter and MOND [1], which was also discussed today on HN [2]. The title of the Voat submission will give you a good idea of…

Wow. Clicked your last link. That is absolutely awful.

Same here. “It’s a silly sci fi western style brain dead fun tv show what could you hate?” Boy was I wrong. I’m not sad a site that tolerates that is closing.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#426

Post by user-the-name »

jcims wrote: post #149
stavros wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited once out of curiosity, and was just shocked to see how overtly racist people were. It wasn't just "immigrants should stay in their countries" (which I was expecting), it was full on "I don't see why I shouldn't be able to kill me a n*gger if I feel like it" speech (censorship mine). Truly disgusting.

Same. It was so on-the-nose I wasn't entirely convinced that everything I was reading was authentic. Obviously that type of person exists but some of the conversations seemed performative.

It's only an act for so long. If it ever was an act.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#427

Post by henriquez »

0dayz wrote: post #402
Clampower wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that gender critical subreddits were banned, (like LGBdroptheT) where respectful discussion on gay erasure were taking place, speaks volumes. In The current political climate, gay people need to hear from members of their own community that homosexuality is transphobic, because it excludes transpeople. Mainstream gay and lesbian subreddits are teaching lesbians to like "girl dick". A simple joke that gay men…

I highly doubt respectful conversations were taking place where phrases like "i don't want to sleep with a Frankenstein monster" was born. So at least be honest about "LGBdroptheT" being transphobic, if you're going to cry homophobia.

Homosexual, bisexual and lesbian are sexual orientations. Transsexualism is not. There’s at least a coherent argument and a worthwhile discussion that bundling trans in when it has nothing to do with LGB is diminishing to both groups, thus is homophobic (and transphobic). Don’t trans people deserve their own cultural identity?

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#428

Post by concordDance »

watwut wrote: post #401
concordDance wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nazism" in today's usage is a collection of ideas (many with some ressemblance to the ideas of 1940 Germany). The label "nazi" is applied to anyone who believes any of them. The biggest reason why holding one of these ideas makes it likely you'll hold the others are the effects oulined above (people being pushed into the wotch community). So, in essence, the modern censorship environment created the modern Nazi. :D

And how do you explain the correlation in the past? Because the correlation of these ideas is not modern development, it was like that already during Nazi era - and when before it.

Not sure there was a correlation. What makes you think there was?

They were all pretty popular ideas though.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#429

Post by dsr_ »

intended wrote: post #398
0xBA5ED wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong on so many levels. You are encouraging witch hunts based on fear and paranoia. Moderation is about maintaining order, not slapping down baddies. You could argue that one leads to the other, but it's the difference in mindset that allows for effective moderation without the need for all that negativity.

Moderation is a mash up of several roles- I expect it to expand over time. One of those roles IS slapping baddies. You are on the forum so long you figure out who is a repeat offender and who are the coordinates groups

I moderate one fairly active and one very in-active discussion groups.

The actual work is very similar, only varying in quantity.

On both groups, there are regulars, regulars with known triggers, casuals who might become regulars, and flamers. The regulars with specific triggers can be progressively discouraged.

The flamers must be stopped hard, or else they dominate conversation for days or weeks, making everyone else unhappy. You can give them a second chance, but not a third.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#430

Post by Eyas »

henriquez wrote: post #427
0dayz wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt respectful conversations were taking place where phrases like "i don't want to sleep with a Frankenstein monster" was born. So at least be honest about "LGBdroptheT" being transphobic, if you're going to cry homophobia.

Homosexual, bisexual and lesbian are sexual orientations. Transsexualism is not. There’s at least a coherent argument and a worthwhile discussion that bundling trans in when it has nothing to do with LGB is diminishing to both groups, thus is homophobic (and transphobic). Don’t trans people deserve their own cultural identity?

Trans folks in the LGBT movement were an inextricable part of the movement since day 1. Partly because distinctions at the time between gay men who did drag and trans women did not exist, but also partly because the overarching theme of the movement (and the hate it received) has been the sense of 'disgust' by mainstream society of its subversion of heteronormative values.

Many trans men and women lead the movement vocally when many gay men and women who could survive in the closet sat and waited.

But that's the thing, the good faith discussion happened so many times, and it has been litigated many times. For many of us, trans and non-binary folks gave us many of our rights, and they did not out of a sense of solidarity, but literally because they were fighting for the same thing (really, a revolution against gender norms and expectations).

As the gp said, however, this good faith conversation happens a few times (and has been litigated to death over and over, and continues to). But the domination in the "drop the T" movement is really dehumanizing language about trans people, accusing them of an agenda, brainwashing children, etc. It's really harmful, and it is things that gay, lesbian, and bi folks have been accused of already.

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