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New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

bbc.com

241–250 of 280 posts

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those suicides are from people who are broke for pandemic-related reasons, and could've been prevented had we controlled the pandemic early (i.e, with a strict lockdown)?

Devils advocate: how many of those suicides are caused directly by the restrictions and not the pandemic, how many extra would have lost their sanity due to a stricter lockdown? Truth is we're not taking much time to measure the non-covid, non economic outcomes

I lost my sanity during this year's "lockdowns".

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#242
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people dying from the virus are the old, sick and fat. It's not that simple. It's never that simple: i.e. you have simplified to the point of being flat wrong. > Depending on long term health effects if covid runs wild you can see as many benefits to average people at the end of it as you did after the black death I don't know what you mean there, for one thing prevalent Long COVID is really not going to be net…

>I don't know what you mean And yet that didn't stop you from moralizing.

And you haven't yet started thinking in moral ways, but also your nihilistic desire has stopped you from seeing the logical truth: There are countries that both have the COVID virus under control and also have their economy back on track; and there are countries that have achieved neither. There is no "one or the other". It is "control the virus and benefit economically, or get neither benefit".

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, people are always dying. Deaths don't automatically outweigh everything. This logic quickly breaks down once you apply it consistently. Traffic accidents are a huge cause of deaths, yet we don't ban all vehicles. There are massive costs associated with lockdowns, most of which we can probably only judge accurately once everything is over, and certainly there are second order effects which cost lives also. Su…

You're talking about death as something abstract. I'm not. I'm saying I would prefer not to die, even if it costs the economy a lot. Perhaps you'd give up your life, or your child or partner or parent, to save a handful of jobs but that's quite weird in my opinion. Economies can be rebuilt. Dead people can't be brought back.

The situation as it is does not pit option A: "you die right now" vs. option B: "save a handful of jobs". You are still oversimplifying the issue. In reality, both options are just modifying chances, and both options entail a huge number of second order effects. This needs to be weighed. It's not as simple as saying "well option A is literal death, so the other must always be better". And pointing that out does not mean I'd die to save a handful of jobs.

The flu also kills hundreds of thousands of people, and it does so each and every year. So should we be in permanent lockdown? After all, it's lives versus a handful of jobs.

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate: how many of those suicides are caused directly by the restrictions and not the pandemic, how many extra would have lost their sanity due to a stricter lockdown? Truth is we're not taking much time to measure the non-covid, non economic outcomes

The whole point of a strict lockdown would've been to nip the problem in the bud via drastic measures. Based on the experiences of other countries, it should've lasted about 3-4 weeks.

I think this idea is idealistic. It's easy to say now that we should've reacted immediately. But try just getting public support for drastic lockdown measures when the virus was new enough to have about as much impact on people's daily lives as the latest hospital bombing somewhere in Afghanistan.

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#245
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate: how many of those suicides are caused directly by the restrictions and not the pandemic, how many extra would have lost their sanity due to a stricter lockdown? Truth is we're not taking much time to measure the non-covid, non economic outcomes

I lost my sanity during this year's "lockdowns".

I wish you the best. Hope you get better.

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#246
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet when a journalist calls up a scientist and say "What do you think?" and the scientist says "These could have an effect on virulence or transmission or antibody neutralization," somehow that gets translated in to "It's making the virus more virulent" This has been an incredibly large issue for almost a year now and it's ridiculous. Journalists not understanding the way scientists speak was vaguely understandable…

>This has been an incredibly large issue for almost a year now and it's ridiculous. Journalists not understanding the way scientists speak was vaguely understandable ten months ago, but after a year straight of science being the number one news maker in the world it's obvious that the media is just use it as an excuse to scare-monger and increase their clicks. Not understanding or not wanting to understand? It's beco…

“It is hard for a person to understand something when their income depends on not understanding it”(upton Sinclair) explains too much of the modern world, unfortunately.

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#247

Very suspicious that this story breaks just as Boris needs to lock down the country over christmas. "everyone is going to hate me, quick think of something to blame.".... Eureka .... "There's a new virus strain, totally unforeseeable, don't blame me for the lock downs" Just sayin'

These days, it seems like everyone is "Just sayin'" some sort of nonsense conspiracy theory with no evidence. I wish people would stop sayin'.

Are you GPT-3?

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#248
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What confounders would you suggest? Elsewhere in the thread you've been suggesting it's a founder effect. It should be plainly obvious why it's not that, nor something you could attribute to a single super-spreader event.

Reading the latest document out, I can't rule out sampling bias, and the methodology used to gather data is also vulnerable to bias (get samples which are PCR-negative for the S gene, but positive to other genes, which is, by their own admission, a poor proxy). The confidence intervals shown by PHE on potential increased transmissibility are also very wide (not the ones from the NERVTAG minutes, but the new analyses…

How would sampling error lead to the relative prevalence growing from 0% to 60% in a smooth exponential curve over 1-2 months?

My understanding on data gathering is that there have been two data sources: sequencing a 10% sample of the positive results, and using the fortuitous point about the three-target PCR tests showing one of the targets as negative for all such tests. Having two data sources is useful since the results from the sequencing are delayed by weeks.

But up to the point where they have both sets of data, the relative prevalence lines up very neatly. In particular, it cannot be that these results are coming from some other variant with the same 69-70 deletion.

(I don't think it's fair to suggest they implied it was a poor proxy in general. They said it was a poorer proxy the further back in time you go.)

Re: confidence intervals, the data they have from the relative prevalence of the new variant has pretty tight confidence intervals (95% CI: 1.34-1.59 R). That makes sense, because the modeling for that is really simple.

The confidence interval for trying to correlate prevalence of the variant vs growth rates is indeed quite wide. But it makes sense, because that's noisy data.

Yes, more data and more evidence will always be great. How many weeks are you willing to wait for it, before putting in new measures? How will that delay affect the epidemic curve if the findings so far are correct?

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#249
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't know what you mean And yet that didn't stop you from moralizing.

And you haven't yet started thinking in moral ways, but also your nihilistic desire has stopped you from seeing the logical truth: There are countries that both have the COVID virus under control and also have their economy back on track; and there are countries that have achieved neither. There is no "one or the other". It is "control the virus and benefit economically, or get neither benefit".

Morality is a sound people make when they have nothing to defend their position with.

Re: New coronavirus variant: What do we know?

#250
post #218

I find it completely disappointing and disheartening that the west has done almost nothing to curb the virus, thus increasing the chance of mutation and continued spread. It's just hard to see the pointing of fingers at China that's happened, especially in hindsight when it's unclear if it even began in China (which doesn't really matter anyway if it was a naturally occurring zoonotic crossover event) and not somewhe…

The US is a free country. China is an authoritarian dictatorship.

The most alarming thing to me is the public appetite for authoritarian policies.

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