Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#521

Post by Melting_Harps » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:04 AM UTC

RealityVoid wrote: post #502

agumonkey wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure an EV is still that much more complex in terms of part count from a phone ? An ICE I would agree.

I can assure you that only in the instrument cluster and the central console area you have the same amount of complexity as in a smartphone. Now add the rest of the car.

> I can assure you that only in the instrument cluster and the central console area you have the same amount of complexity as in a smartphone. Now add the rest of the car.

Not only that but the regulatory standards of EV in US/EU/Asia varies so widely that I don't see how they can get a product to Market in less than 5-10 years unless they're just making EV clones of what is already out here or partner with a Manufacturer. And burned factories in India are not going to cut it on the logistics and supply chain so they'd need to work that out, too.

I can honestly see them partnering up with Nissan-Mitsubishi Motors who are in dire financial straits and want get out of their alliance with Renault-French Government after all the Ghosn corruption and are taking their entire lineup to EV and want to improve on the in-cabin AR side of things, all of which Apple could help build and have the finance to support it.

Having worked at Nissan I think its focus is on tech and still makes cars to prove and refine it's technology, they had an Aerospace division in Mountain View, and used the supposed 'auto pilot' features Tesla has on some of its Infiniti chassis (lidar based cruise control and lane staying signals) in the early 2000s.

I hope it happens, to be honest I dislike anything Apple makes and I despise their business practices for obvious reasons (Foxxcon) but I'm forced into their ecosystem as of now. I'd like to be open to their products if they it did happen.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#522

Post by yazaddaruvala » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:06 AM UTC

jb1991 wrote: post #275

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #271

Apple, will not make a car. They will make carOS, the UX that is built into other companies' cars. Basically, they will build software, the steering wheel, the whole from dash, maybe even a backseat interface, and internal software (excluding hardware drivers), and standardize the UX across every automaker. Kinda like what Android did for phones, but Apple will enforce stricter regulations for carOS.

You say this with such an air of authority, but obviously you are only guessing. Unless you can cite your convictions.

As you say, it’s obvious I’m speculating so I don’t see why it bothers you. But don’t worry you’re not alone. Many people in my life find this same trait problematic :)

My motivation: Me stating my speculation with “such an air of authority” is just me betting my publicly logged reputation on the final result. I might be wrong, I might be right, none of us know today. This makes it more interesting for me.

Additionally, the confidence with which I write down my speculation let’s me in 5years look back at my comments and better calibrating my ability to speculate.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#523

Post by mulmen » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

_underfl0w_ wrote: post #510

mulmen wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked working for him. I don’t understand this question. It reads like my comment could be interpreted in some other way than I intended but I can’t figure out what that would be.

The implication is pretty overt, no? Asking OP to explain almost seems deliberately obtuse. You mentioned, in a decidedly technical forum, that a superior at work made a somewhat questionable tech-related decision by owning a car with dashboard software by a company whose software is commonly joked to crash frequently and be less-than-reliable. I'm sure it was purely in lighthearted jest, but not exactly subtle given…

I made no such implication and frankly I am astonished it would be interpreted that way, although others seem to have done the same. I'll try to avoid causing this kind of confusion in the future.

To clarify:

The context was the old jokes about putting tech in cars and how some of it is coming true. I cited an example of that happening. It happened to be my boss' car when I witnessed it.

I simply shared a personal anecdote that seemed relevant to the conversation. His car had a dashboard that crashed. He told me about it on the way to lunch. Then later when I was riding in his car it happened.

I made and make no judgement about him as a person, technologist or manager based on the kind of car he drove. Honestly that thought hadn't even crossed my mind. This is why I asked. I'm astounded I have to explain this on HN of all places but here we are.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#524

Post by ClumsyPilot » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:20 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #519

foxtr0t wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're asking this question seriously, I have to ask a clarification question: what are we actually talking about? Are we comparing just certain aspects of production of the whole thing? If you think about this from an engineering perspective for even 30 seconds there are so many differences that come to mind. - Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone - Must operate in a much w…

> Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone I don't think this is true. Most electric cars are re-charged once a day, which is about the same as a phone. > Must operate in a much wider variety of conditions than a phone Also, not really true if you look at the range of temperature and conditions an iPhone is rated for. (Including water resistance. Mine went through a washing machine…

> iPhones definitely have lights.

I am sorry, are you trolling?

Are you seriously comparing smash test on a phone with regulatory crash test on a car? Have you thought about this at all? Do iPhones have crumple zones designed in? Do they asses performance of the chassis after 30 years of corrosion? Do they operate in 50 degree Dubai or -30 Siberia? Do they travel at 100 m/h? How many Gs does an SSD (~100) survive as opposed to a human brain (~10)?

I am sorry for namecalling, but this post comes across as very arrogant.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#525

Post by ClumsyPilot » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:33 AM UTC

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

My work-issued mac doesn't turn on outdoors in winter, it overheats and shuts off in direct sunlight in summer. It's software crashes twice a week. The computer turns to garbage in 7 years through obsolesence and general wear.

It is irrepearable and components are impossible to obtain because Apple has punitive contract with suppliers.

This week assebly line workers are burning down the factory in india because of wage theft.

What in the above gives you an impression that the car they build can be trusted with the life of your family?

This fetishising of Apple has to stop, making pretty laptops doesn't mean shit when lives are at stake

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#526

Post by mortenjorck » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #519

foxtr0t wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're asking this question seriously, I have to ask a clarification question: what are we actually talking about? Are we comparing just certain aspects of production of the whole thing? If you think about this from an engineering perspective for even 30 seconds there are so many differences that come to mind. - Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone - Must operate in a much w…

> Pack has to go through an order of magnitude more charge cycles than a phone I don't think this is true. Most electric cars are re-charged once a day, which is about the same as a phone. > Must operate in a much wider variety of conditions than a phone Also, not really true if you look at the range of temperature and conditions an iPhone is rated for. (Including water resistance. Mine went through a washing machine…

Each of these comparisons makes sense at only the most superficial level. The automotive industry may have more in common with personal electronics than it did thirty years ago, but forced comparisons belie the unique and complex challenges in shipping a road-legal car.

And yet, that massive gulf is the whole point here.

Apple is treading in 95% unfamiliar waters, but the company has proven time and again this is its secret power. They'd never made portable music players before; they'd never made phones before; they'd never made watches before. A car is simply the ultimate expression of this, bringing to bear all of Apple's experience in entering a market where they have no experience.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#527

Post by ClumsyPilot » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:41 AM UTC

nwienert wrote: post #513

easde wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind, Tesla didn’t design or build the computers. Tesla has shipped their custom SoC in every new car since April 2019.

The point has nothing to do with whether they do now, but the relative complexity of building a car vs computer.

Complexity of a phone has no relevance on your ability to deliver a car, just like it has no relevance on your ability to deliver a hydroelectric dam.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#528

Post by prepend » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:43 AM UTC

modeless wrote: post #69

iandanforth wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently sold my Tesla Model 3 I can say there is a lot to be desired with that car. The biggest lesson from Tesla is that cars are not cellphones. Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car. I hope that Apple learns that lesson. I think if they had gone first they might have made that mistake too, but now that it's been tried they can find interes…

> Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car I have to strongly disagree with this. The touchscreen is great for the vast majority of things it replaces. The only physical controls I ever miss are for temperature (which is a very minor complaint) and windshield wipers (though I would also accept auto wipers that actually work). I do think the UI smoothnes…

I suppose it’s personal preference but the touchscreen is probably the single biggest factor why I didn’t buy a Tesla recently. I think it will be great when self driving works, but for driving it’s hard to try to touch parts of a flat screen.

Here’s an example of various controls I fiddle with while driving: temperature control through a little knob that sticks out; Heated seats through a button with sight curve around borders; Apple CarPlay through a knob.

There’s also no heads up display to present speed and nav onto the windshield.

All these things are good for me to look at the road and not have to precisely touch something with at least a few seconds of focus.

I have friends who love their Tesla and love the touch screen so it may just be my control style that doesn’t work.

I suspect Apple would get this stuff better.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#529

Post by bredren » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:45 AM UTC

ttul wrote: post #512

Classic Apple. They dabble in various things for years until the moment is right to strike with a version 2.0 of something that others already make. Apple rarely enters the market with something that nobody has ever seen before. Apple Watch, iPad, iPhone, and iPod... These were not the first products in their category, but they were the first to get the category truly right. This being said, I have no idea what Apple…

Apple would aim for “car” to describe the new product in the same way “phone” describes iPhone.

As in, “yes it technically can place and receive calls but that is the most boring thing that it does.”

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#530

Post by anm89 » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 3:45 AM UTC

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

It's been a long time since Apple had Tesla's current ethos.