Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#491

Post by Redoubts » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #383

Bud wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you don't have the faintest idea of how Apple differentiated their card from the competition.

How did apple differentiate their card from the competition? I don't see any reason I should prefer it to my amex.

Well, amex is pretty good in features and experience end to end. In comparison, the Uber card was garbage as it's just a badged Barclay Bank card with shitty apps and an awful purchase notification implementation.

But usually the rewards are all anyone cares about, and the Apple Card is decidedly mediocre and pell mell here.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#492

Post by nomel » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #456

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

This comment implicitly rests on the fallacy, learned the hard way by Tesla, that making electric vehicles is just like making any other electronic thing. When is the last time an electronic mfg had to deal with a billion dollar lawsuit because they didn't follow industry best practices for design like Toyota did after the acceleration scandal? Does Apple have experience with the NHTSB or other relevant regulatory ag…

> It is not the same as making an iPhone.

They can make phones because they hire/hired experts who can make phones. I doubt they would use those same electrical engineers to design the brake systems. I don't think there's anything evidence to suggest that they couldn't acquire/hire the right talent.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#493

Post by pengaru » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

foxtr0t wrote: post #366

natch wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The engine of my electric car has one moving part. One. Made in house from raw materials. Rolls of steel, copper, and aluminum. It’s also considered a single part for manufacturing and servicing purposes. So not simply one moving part. One part, period. >The number of parts/unit differs by an order of magnitude >car companies often rely on hundreds of suppliers See above. You must be thinking of ICE cars. >aren’t as…

I was waiting for the Muskians to swoop in and spread their nonsense. Guess what? I drive a white model 3 long range AWD and I love it. I'm still 1: an engineer with 10 years of hardware experience and 2: skeptical of every ounce of BS Elon Musk has ever spread. You know how many parts are under the car? Have you taken one apart? They're complicated machines with, again, orders of magnitude more parts than a phone. F…

Yeah, the complexity comparison of a DOT-legal EV to smartphone is idiotic.

There has been some improvement over ICEs though, at least in the precision-machined parts and assemblies department.

But a smartphone is analogous to the infotainment display in a modern car. There's still a lot of car attached to that. I think many people commenting on this don't have the slightest clue what the average automobile is composed of beyond the engine, interior, exterior, and wheels.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#494

Post by rrdharan » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

m-ee wrote: post #382

foxtr0t wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite becoming more similar in recent years, the cell phone supply chain is still very different than the automotive supply chain. The number of parts/unit differs by an order of magnitude and so does the size and weight, not to mention manufacturing techniques and materials. These are capabilities, not so much skills, and they aren't as transferable as you may think. For instance, logistically things are very diff…

I've worked with ex Apple supply chain people, and they were very used to operating at massive scale and the leverage that came with it. This led to some some unhappy suppliers some of which walked because they felt we were being too demanding. I don't want to overgeneralize, some of the issue was likely the culture of this particular team, but I could definitely see growing pains as they move into a new vertical wit…

What’s funny is everyone (including Microsoft) was saying all this same stuff about Apple in 2006 and early 2007 when it became clear they were going to move into phones.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#495

Post by starfallg » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:15 AM UTC

abhinavsharma wrote: post #21

This is starting to make increasingly more sense even though Apple making a car seemed laughable a few years ago. Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Apple Card was perhaps a dipping of the toes moment. In theory, Tesla shouldn't be worth what it is because the tech behind it is increasingly getting commoditize…

>Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience.

The user experience of many Apple products is notably substandard. Maps, homepod, keyboard, list goes on. What Apple is good at is integration (both horizontal and vertical) and managing user perception through design.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#496

Post by aidenn0 » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

als0 wrote: post #490

threeseed wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does have a lot of SKUs in most of the world's countries and mobile certifications isn't exactly trivial.

ASIL D certification isn’t comparable to mobile phones.

Does any government require ASIL D yet?

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#497

Post by thesagan » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:19 AM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #247

jrib wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they've really thought through the UX of a semi-self driving car Minor side note. I'm sure a lot of the experience is well-designed but I can't help but grimace every time I see that huge touch tablet instead of physical buttons on the dashboard.

That’s Ok. A lot of people thought keyboards on phones were an absolute requirement too. Like with phones, having touch screen control everything provides extraordinary flexibility in rolling out new software features and ultimately improving UX. Remember this design is supposed to lead the way into an FSD future achieved through purely software updates. Whether they succeed in automating the majority of miles driven…

I think the concern stems from differing contexts. When typing on the phone, you're looking at the phone. You're usually (hopefully) not driving.

Driving, on the other hand, is demanding on the senses; on at least three of them. Touch screens pull eyes off the road. Physical knobs are much easier to grab without looking.

In my car I have the luxury of both touch and knobs for some things. I always use knobs when I can. It feels safer. (But then, I also prefer crank windows instead of automatic, so maybe I'm just a nut.)

It's like my Macbook touchbar. It stinks. The physical keys were easy to use without looking. With touch, I almost always need to look steady at it before I touch. For me, muscle memory isn't enough for touchscreens. Weird.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#498

Post by dternyak » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

remir wrote: post #421

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #7

FAANGs really need to expand into more and more industries if they expect to continue their hypergrowth. Apple, at 6% of SPY, especially.

What FAANGs need to do, IMO, is to take their massive wealth and start thinking about some solutions to solve humanity's very urgent problems.

If I was a shareholder of FAANG (I'm not), I wouldn't be very excited about them taking on very unprofitable tasks like solving humanity's urgent problems.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#499

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #165

At this point the charging infrastructure is the biggest differentiator for me. I don't particularly care for Elon Musk, and I don't think Tesla vehicles are made particularly well. However, is there any competitor that has even 25% of the charging network that Tesla has? Also, Apple can't even convert my voicemails into text. They seem like 3-5 generations behind the competition in machine learning. People believe t…

> is there any competitor that has even 25% of the charging network that Tesla has?

Well, EVgo claims to be the largest DC fast charging network in the US. I don't know if that's true, and I don't know if they're excluding Tesla's proprietary network. They claim to have 800 fast charging locations, and I think Tesla is a bit over 900. Tesla has more stations per location, however, I'm pretty certain of that.

Collectively, I think there are more non-Tesla DC fast charging locations than there are superchargers, and the gap is expected to widen significantly over the coming years. Tesla had a great head start, though, so they command the mindshare. And some of the standardized DC fast charging stations have acquired a reputation for unreliability. But ... superchargers break regularly, too.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#500

Post by yazaddaruvala » Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

silentsea90 wrote: post #276

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #271

Apple, will not make a car. They will make carOS, the UX that is built into other companies' cars. Basically, they will build software, the steering wheel, the whole from dash, maybe even a backseat interface, and internal software (excluding hardware drivers), and standardize the UX across every automaker. Kinda like what Android did for phones, but Apple will enforce stricter regulations for carOS.

Do you think car makers will give up the space to Apple OS so easily? Android if anything is more conducive to using in a car setting, but I suspect that car makers would want to keep their OS/marketplace profits for themselves

When it comes to cars, TSLA is following AAPLs iPhone story and they are around 2011. Note: cars have a longer shelf life. 20 years vs 6 years for phones. And typical turnaround is more like 10 years vs 3 years. Apple and Android dominated the phone industry in a decade. TSLA and “the second OS/UX” will dominate that industry in 30 years.

Everyone now understands that Tesla will not just be another competitor in the automobile industry they have usurped the throne while everyone else was guarding the doors.

There needs to be “an Android” to counterbalance and unite the industry. Otherwise automakers that don’t partner with “the second OS/UX” will dwindle and stop existing. Eg BBM, Nokia, Palm. Meanwhile, Samsung was an early adopter and is holding strong (counter example HTC, also an early adopter but dead).

Like HTC vs Samsung vs Motorola vs Pixel, there will still be competition for best manufacturing and performance. Automakers that adopt the unified OS/UX, will need to make sure they don’t lose that game like HTC.

If the players in the auto industry don’t see this, they have already lost. Meanwhile, it might not be AAPL to make the unified OS/UX. However, they were willing to do it with Apple Card and insurance. Partner with Goldman or (whatever my iPhone loan thing is) and provide an amazing UX. They also have tons of consumer trust and it helps get their foot into the auto market, getting the benefits (Siri, iOS apps, Maps, self driving) without taking on the risks.