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Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#471

Post by timbit42 »

wezen wrote: post #396
jaimex2 wrote: post #360

This will be fun to watch unfold. A company with no innovative leadership since Jobs will get a bunch of Tesla rejects to build a an electric car with pie in the sky battery tech. If it doesn't need lithium they might have a shot. Also Apple isn't known for being a machine learning company, I'm sure the car will be very pretty but they're kidding themselves if they think they are making a self driving system that to…

No innovative leadership? How can you say that after the Apple Watch, Apple Silicon, etc and their stock having grown so much?

LOL!

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#472

Post by nwienert »

foxtr0t wrote: post #366
natch wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The engine of my electric car has one moving part. One. Made in house from raw materials. Rolls of steel, copper, and aluminum. It’s also considered a single part for manufacturing and servicing purposes. So not simply one moving part. One part, period. >The number of parts/unit differs by an order of magnitude >car companies often rely on hundreds of suppliers See above. You must be thinking of ICE cars. >aren’t as…

I was waiting for the Muskians to swoop in and spread their nonsense. Guess what? I drive a white model 3 long range AWD and I love it. I'm still 1: an engineer with 10 years of hardware experience and 2: skeptical of every ounce of BS Elon Musk has ever spread. You know how many parts are under the car? Have you taken one apart? They're complicated machines with, again, orders of magnitude more parts than a phone. F…

Hm... but a phone is orders of magnitude harder to build than a car (minus the computer). Keep in mind, Tesla didn’t design or build the computers.

Cars use many more off the shelf parts, they have far easier supply chains to tap into.

Designing and building the CPU, GPU, camera systems, neural chip/software, touchscreen, FaceID, etc. All of these components require way more competence to build than any single part of an electric car using an off the shelf computer.

Cars have more parts, but they are dramatically bigger, less intensely complex, less intensely integrated. Just the CPU alone of a phone puts an entire electric engine to shame in terms of difficulty of engineering.

So it’s an interesting comparison. But I’d put money on Apple making a great car before Tesla made a great computer.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#473

Post by umeshunni »

ogre_codes wrote: post #454
thekyle wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is sitting on 300 billion in cash - I expect them to do something with it. Why can't they just pay it out to shareholders and let them figure out how to invest it?

They have been. Apple has returned over half a trillion dollars to shareholders over the past 6 years or so. They have pledged to be cashflow neutral going forward. They do still have a monster cash reserve, but they are also very good to shareholders at the same time. Edit: corrected an order of magnitude error in figures! Thanks umeshunni

I think you mean half a trillion

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#474

Post by timbit42 »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #445
remir wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What FAANGs need to do, IMO, is to take their massive wealth and start thinking about some solutions to solve humanity's very urgent problems.

Electric cars is a part of the solution.

First world problem.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#475

Post by enos_feedler »

treis wrote: post #187
onethought wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hard to see them doing better than car companies that have been building cars for decades. I'm sure Nokia had the same confidence in 2005.

Sure, but Apple had a revolutionary new product. They weren't that great at the nuts and bolts of making a phone, but it didn't matter because the concept of the iPhone was so much better than any phone out there. What is Apple going to bring to the car to match that?

I think every Apple derivative product built since the iPhone is proof they don’t need to reinvent the initial market conditions of the iphone to yield high ROI. Half of Apples success is just understanding their own customer base and building a car for them. If you are in this group you already know it (i am). You could say at least 10% of existing US car owners would already own one if it existed. Apple just needs to show up and build a car for them and its sold. Same is true for headphones. For TVs. Etc. it is all coming.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#476

Post by ogre_codes »

afavour wrote: post #432
poulsbohemian wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE: User experience - best card I’ve ever used. Integrates with my watch and phone in such a way that I don’t even have to pull it out to pay. Can dispute charges with a single text. Easy to see full details of spending and billing. The cash back pays for my monthly Apple One account too.

> Integrates with my watch and phone in such a way that I don’t even have to pull it out to pay. That’s contactless payment. Entirely possible without any Apple anything. A more cynical person might say that one of Apple’s strengths is marketing commoditised capabilities as something special.

> A more cynical person might say that one of Apple’s strengths is marketing commoditised capabilities as something special.

The Apple Card is easily the best card I've ever had. Its not just about touch-less payments (which doesn't actually require the Apple Card), it's the way you are notified, legibility of bills, convenience and immediacy of cash back, nicely integrated and payment options plus a bunch of other great features. Notably, Apple was the only card company which notified me in a conspicuous way that I had the option to skip payments during COVID.

Nothing is specifically amazing about the Apple Card, but collectively it's easily the best credit card I've had. The only time I use my other cards at all is when they have significantly better cash back programs. (Amazon card for example)

Your comment is close to the truth though. Apple's strength is in creating polished/ well integrated products. Often those products don't need bleeding edge tech, just someone integrating them better than existing players. The credit card is kind of a classic example. It's not fundamentally different, just a better experience all around.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#477

Post by ska »

baybal2 wrote: post #310
tobr wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Past performance is not indicative of future results etc, but you’re right, this is basically exactly what Palm CEO Ed Colligan said about the rumored iPhone a few months before it was revealed[1]: > “We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.” 1: https://daringfireball.net/2006/…

And they didn't. Iphone 1 was far from a commercial success. 3GS was the first one that approached the cult status. It tool them 4 generations to get there, and a lot of money.

> Iphone 1 was far from a commercial success.

That's a difficult statement to support. It set the stage for everything that came after, and it knocked the industry back on its heels. I'm not sure of the margin or unit numbers but for lots of values of "commercial success", that alone is hard to ignore.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#478

Post by ska »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #240
treis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but Apple had a revolutionary new product. They weren't that great at the nuts and bolts of making a phone, but it didn't matter because the concept of the iPhone was so much better than any phone out there. What is Apple going to bring to the car to match that?

I’ll just say that the main benefit of a Tesla, besides driving and handling really nicely is that the electronics are actually good: it’s entertainment system isn’t a hacky afterthought; also, just plugging into the supercharger and walking away makes the whole “messing with payment methods” paradigm of gas stations seem obsolete.

Isn't this sort of an argument in favor of an apple car?

With tesla the over all build quality for price range isn't great (they are getting better), but the software integration and UX is really good.

Apple is really good at both those things, if it translates to cars that could be compelling.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#479

Post by enos_feedler »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #221
function_seven wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they decide to implement a hardware control, it's usually done well. But their records is hit-and-miss in my opinion. Good: iPod click wheel, iPhone side buttons/switches, old chiclet keyboards, trackpad. Bad: Butterfly keyboards, AppleTV remote is awful (swipes and edge-clicks for all sorts of things), their mice have always been a pain to use (wanna right click? Better lift your left finger completely away fro…

I hadn't thought about this until your comment. While I think Apple building a car is... dubious (both the idea that they would and that they should even if they can), I'd been thinking "well, at least Apple is good at UI," but I really don't like Tesla-esque touchscreen-for-everything auto interfaces, and that would be a serious temptation for Apple.

I think Apple is smart enough to do marker research on this. Tesla used a big tablet to cheap out. Apple is not going to cheap out

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#480

Post by ska »

treis wrote: post #340
Bud wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've completely missed it. Apple was manifestly incredibly great at the "nuts and bolts of making a phone". That's the entire lesson of the last 13 years and the most successful single product in world history.

You're looking back at this with rose colored glasses. Early iPhones had plenty of issues. Remember "you're holding it wrong"? It took them a few generations to get the nuts and bolts of making a phone right.

That antenna was a misstep, sure. And they had others. But for the most part over that period, they were defining the product category, and competitors were reacting to it.
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