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Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#361

Post by tlapinsk »

rconti wrote: post #300
haberman wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat ironically, the physical controls for the turns signals are by far the worst part of the whole Tesla UI. I've had my Model 3 for over two years now, and I still cannot reliably cancel a turn signal, or "soft push" the signal so it only blinks 3 times. It's infuriating to inadvertently signal left, then right, then left again, as you frantically try to just cancel the turn signal. I'm broadcasting confusion a…

BMW did this, too, starting with the E90 3 series, if I remember correctly. It's awful, because in almost every car I drive, and especially in BMWs (E92 and the E70 X5 I own now), the steering wheel blocks the top of the speedometer and the turn signals entirely. The "modern" turn signal sounds are too soft to be heard over music, and the switch itself is stateless. I think BMW finally gave up on it for their newer m…

You can try adjusting the height of the steering wheel? I run into the same issue in my E90 335d, but it's by choice as it's where I like the steering wheel to sit in relation to my seat position.

Very much agreed on the feeling and weight of the stalks. By far the best in the business. Especially for knowing the difference between a lane change vs. turn signal

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#362

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #314
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll just say that the main benefit of a Tesla, besides driving and handling really nicely is that the electronics are actually good: it’s entertainment system isn’t a hacky afterthought; also, just plugging into the supercharger and walking away makes the whole “messing with payment methods” paradigm of gas stations seem obsolete.

On the flipside, my 2012 "dumb" car with the good third-party bluetooth adapter I got last year is the end-all, be-all of car electronics for me. It can only go downhill from there. To me, car electronics should be like a Kindle is for reading. There is a period after you launch the Kindle but before you start reading where you interact with it like a smartphone or tablet. But then once you get started, the notion th…

Yeah, that’s sort of what I like about the Tesla: the interactions I care about are almost all accessed through the controls on the steering wheel (volume up/down, next/previous track, play/pause, cruise control adjustments) or through sticks. The screen mostly is for setting up music when you first get into the car, navigation, car status info (speed, fsd visualization, speed limit, energy consumption). Also, when charging, it’s nice to have a big screen for Netflix.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#363

Post by kenhwang »

christophilus wrote: post #285

If I was an Apple shareholder (I guess I am, indirectly through Berkshire), this would piss me off. Apple is in a very good business. Cars are a terrible business. Just compare Apple’s margins to any car company. Also, it’s really hard to move into a business that is widely outside your core competency. It can be done, but the effort is huge, and I suspect the median track record is poor.

Apple makes more money per unit selling an iPhone than most automakers make from selling an entire car.

The auto industry has historically been a low margin, low volume, high capital investment industry with significant government subsidies.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#364

Post by Bud »

treis wrote: post #340
Bud wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've completely missed it. Apple was manifestly incredibly great at the "nuts and bolts of making a phone". That's the entire lesson of the last 13 years and the most successful single product in world history.

You're looking back at this with rose colored glasses. Early iPhones had plenty of issues. Remember "you're holding it wrong"? It took them a few generations to get the nuts and bolts of making a phone right.

Yes, I remember that "you're holding it wrong was" a) actually several years into the product, not at the beginning, and b) was hilariously overblown and not a real issue for about 99% of users, including all users who had a case on their phone and almost all users who didn't, and c) a reliable identifier of cranks that don't really know much about the iPhone.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#365

Post by heavyset_go »

nradov wrote: post #254
heavyset_go wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia was in a really good position and squandered it as the market shifted.

Nokia's position was weaker than it might have appeared on the surface. They had good hardware and distribution channels but were totally lacking a modern mobile device OS. The Symbian platform was garbage. Nokia never made sufficient investment into a replacement.

I'm someone who enjoyed Maemo and Meego much more than Android or iOS. Nokia sabotaged their position by ditching that platform in favor of Windows Phone.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#366

Post by foxtr0t »

natch wrote: post #299
foxtr0t wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite becoming more similar in recent years, the cell phone supply chain is still very different than the automotive supply chain. The number of parts/unit differs by an order of magnitude and so does the size and weight, not to mention manufacturing techniques and materials. These are capabilities, not so much skills, and they aren't as transferable as you may think. For instance, logistically things are very diff…

The engine of my electric car has one moving part. One. Made in house from raw materials. Rolls of steel, copper, and aluminum. It’s also considered a single part for manufacturing and servicing purposes. So not simply one moving part. One part, period. >The number of parts/unit differs by an order of magnitude >car companies often rely on hundreds of suppliers See above. You must be thinking of ICE cars. >aren’t as…

I was waiting for the Muskians to swoop in and spread their nonsense.

Guess what? I drive a white model 3 long range AWD and I love it. I'm still 1: an engineer with 10 years of hardware experience and 2: skeptical of every ounce of BS Elon Musk has ever spread.

You know how many parts are under the car? Have you taken one apart? They're complicated machines with, again, orders of magnitude more parts than a phone. Forget ICE vehicles, we're just talking about EVs and iPhones. You don't think Tesla relies on thousands of suppliers? Who do you think makes the screens, wiring hardness, cameras, brakes, glass, acoustic devices, steering, battery temp management, motorized seats, etc etc. And who do you think supplies their parts? And theirs? And so on and so forth. Its a complicated web of suppliers and manufacturers, much more so than what goes into a single iPhone (which is still very complicated). This is why a Tesla costs 35k+ and an iPhone costs ~1k. There are more parts that are more complicated and manufacturing them takes more time, effort, and people. Elon may have a magic car printer in his wet dreams but that won't happen in reality for four, five, or six decades.

Also, nobody, I repeat, absolutely nobody is holding their breath for you to hit 1m miles in your Tesla. Currently they don't even have a story for repair and so many parts are fused that if something breaks you can't replace it. The car is totaled. I recommend you watch all of the early Rich Rebuilds on YouTube if you really want to understand some of the nitty gritty details of these vehicles. Yes they are simpler than a normal ICE. By an order of magnitude? Certainly not. Progress is made at the margins, in increments of 1% then 5% then 10% then 15%. Not 1000% in one swoop.

EDIT: clarification

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#367

Post by eightails »

haberman wrote: post #219
modeless wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I give the "worst" award to the wiper controls, but I do dislike the mushy feel of the control stalks and the way turn signal cancellation works. Last time I drove a BMW I recall it working similarly though, so maybe it's just the style now?

Perhaps it is just a defect in my hardware, but on mine it is nearly impossible to reliably "soft" press in either direction. Every motion either registers as nothing or hard press.

Yeah could be worth bringing that up during next service. I haven't really had an issue with the two-stage indicators, once I got used to the concept.

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#368

Post by amelius »

_ph_ wrote: post #343

On the one side, Apple going into heavy industry sounds odd, on the other side, they don't even seem to try to hide their autonomous driving efforts. This raises the question, what is Apple developing the technology for? Apple always developed technology for their own products, so if they have an autonomous driving package, they would have to build the vehicle for it. Of course, it might look different from what we i…

If the design of the Apple Watch is any indication, then the best guess for what an Apple Car will look like is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla#/media/File:Fiat...

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#369

Post by ethbr0 »

jandrese wrote: post #313
finnh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is fundamentally now a company that can move immense amounts of capital into new industries with the underlying ethos of user experience. Also: insane supply-chain management chops, a skill that is more and more transferable - especially for electric cars.

I can just see Apple now, milling the entire body of the car out of a single block of aluminum using a 4 axis C&C machine.

> single block of aluminum

iCar

Space gray, chamfered edges, 115 hp, 4 wheels

$100,000

Re: Apple targets car production by 2024, eyes ‘next level’ battery tech: sources

#370

Post by mjhagen »

iandanforth wrote: post #42
modeless wrote: post #6

The Tesla Model 3 already embodies the minimalism, software focus, and vertical integration that have driven Apple's success in the phone market. Right down to the custom SoC and capacitive touchscreen in lieu of buttons. I'm really curious what Apple's differentiators will be. Also, 2024 still seems aggressive to deploy self-driving for real.

Having recently sold my Tesla Model 3 I can say there is a lot to be desired with that car. The biggest lesson from Tesla is that cars are not cellphones. Having one display off to the side, without buttons, that does everything is an awful experience in a car. I hope that Apple learns that lesson. I think if they had gone first they might have made that mistake too, but now that it's been tried they can find interes…

Apple's been reasonably good with the buttons they do make, like the crown on both the watch and their new headphones. Also, a dedicated silence switch on the phone is something not every manufacturer thinks is important.
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