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Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

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Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They teach interpersonal skills, social skills, work ethic, self care, professional networking, etc. Judging by the amount of screaming children we've seen exit these institutions, they're either not teaching those things, or are doing an extremely poor job at it. The coddling companies have to do for new grads entering the workforce is a testament to the lack of interpersonal skills, social skills, work ethic, sel…

Regardless of your personal opinion on recent grads, an accurate measurement of success can only be made with the control group. There is definitely no shortage of bad employees in the non-college employment track... and oftentimes the behavior can far surpass a "screaming children" characterization.

>Regardless of your personal opinion

Not an opinion, it's a documented and studied phenomenon.

>an accurate measurement of success can only be made with the control group.

Luckily behavioral and social psychologist have been studying this phenomenon:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coddling_of_the_American...

>There is definitely no shortage of bad employees in the non-college employment track... and oftentimes the behavior can far surpass a "screaming children" characterization.

No one said otherwise.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make student loans no longer exempt from bankruptcy. The other problem is that education can not be retroactively taken from them. But garnished wages can.

Maybe we should set student loan rates to reflect the actual risk being assumed instead of offering deceptively low interest rates with the fallback of modern indentured servitude. People might think twice about going to school if their student loan interest rates reflected the actual risks they were taking on.

Exactly. Currently, since students cannot get rid of student debt, student loans are essentially risk-free for banks. They should be required to lend at the risk-free rate.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wishful thinking. There is no collateral for a school loan. Banks have to make up for that risk somewhere. Students will have nothing to lose by staging bankruptcy, and banks will stop giving out loans.

I think banks stopping giving out these loans would be a benefit - it would have a crushing effect on tuition and move the conversation to cost containment and educating the most cost effective way possible.

Banks are serving a market. The market is people want to go to college.

The problem isn't the banks. The problem is needing a college degree to have any semblance of a middle class life in America.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wishful thinking. There is no collateral for a school loan. Banks have to make up for that risk somewhere. Students will have nothing to lose by staging bankruptcy, and banks will stop giving out loans.

> There is no collateral for a school loan. There is no collateral for credit card loans either. > Banks have to make up for that risk somewhere. Private student loans have pretty much shriveled to a drop in the ocean of higher-ed financing since they were excluded from the federally-subsidized loan programs (for quite a long time the only “federally-subsidized” loans are direct federal loans), so banks don’t need to…

> There is no collateral for credit card loans either.

And? So? Low balance credit cards don't have collateral. High balance ones require impressive proof of income,credit history, etc. This isn't an argument.

Your second point needs a HUGE citation. Please provide, thanks.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problem does that solve, then? Wow, you can be bankrupt, and never be able to buy a house or car. How is that a solution? It's the same problem as now - "you can't get a house/car because your loan makes you unable to afford it." This doesn't solve the problem. See, it's just a garbage solution thrown out because it "sounds" good but on inspection it's just BS.

I'm not sure what I'm failing to explain. It's not feasible to make student loans able to be eliminated via bankruptcy without restriction, since students could just go through bankruptcy right after graduation and plan around being unable to get a mortgage or car loan until they're 30. If you graduated with a degree in CS, and landed a six figure tech job it'd still make sense financially to go through bankruptcy an…

You're not failing to explain anything, what you're explaining isn't a hard concept and everyone understands what you're saying. We're just saying: it doesn't work/nor does it make sense.

> Allowing student loans to be resolved through bankruptcy after 10-15 years is enough time so that most graduates have assets, and are probably looking for a mortgage on a home in the near future. Going through bankruptcy at 30 or 35 is a much bigger deal than doing so at 21. In this situation, the student can't easily exploit the lender. But at the same time the lender still has the potential for loss if they try to loan to a student studying basket weaving at a university with a 98% acceptance rate.

So instead of trying to solve the problem of crushing student debt, we let people at 30-35 tank their credit score so they can never buy anything again. So we're doing NOTHING for people 22-30, and we're ruining the 30+ year old's credit so they can't actually buy a house. It doesn't help anyone. That's our point. It does nothing to solve any real problem, it just makes everything worse.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#137
Tuition at most privates is, on average, already significantly lower than the sticker price. Unless you are fairly wealthy, are really on the low end of the academic quality spectrum, you're going to get at least a modest "feel good" scholarship that lets you claim you went to college on a scholarship. It's referred to in the industry as the "discount rate", and the average for privates is about 50%. Public colleges and universities often clock in around 10% to 15%.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what I'm failing to explain. It's not feasible to make student loans able to be eliminated via bankruptcy without restriction, since students could just go through bankruptcy right after graduation and plan around being unable to get a mortgage or car loan until they're 30. If you graduated with a degree in CS, and landed a six figure tech job it'd still make sense financially to go through bankruptcy an…

You're not failing to explain anything, what you're explaining isn't a hard concept and everyone understands what you're saying. We're just saying: it doesn't work/nor does it make sense. > Allowing student loans to be resolved through bankruptcy after 10-15 years is enough time so that most graduates have assets, and are probably looking for a mortgage on a home in the near future. Going through bankruptcy at 30 or…

Yes, the 30+ year olds have to make the tough decision of defaulting on their loans and severely limiting their ability to secure loans in the future, vs. continuing to work towards paying off their student loans. If there was no repercussion to defaulting on loans why would anyone ever pay off a loan?

This is precisely why it makes sense to restrict ability to default on student loans for a certain duration. Even if you have six figure salary as a new grad, it'd still make sense to default on your student loans immediately after graduation and plan your life around having a terrible credit score until your 30s. Pay for cars in cash, and don't plan on buying a house until one's 30s. Everyone would do this because it's basically getting money for free. And consequently nobody would issue student loans, even to students going to good schools and studying in demand majors, because students can effectively just walk away from the loans.

Yes, it's not doing anything for people 22-30. This is deliberate. The point is to make sure students who can pay off their loans do pay off their loans. We make recipients of student loans wait until 30-35 to be able to default on loans so that only the ones who are genuinely stuck with loans they can't pay off go through with the default. Yes, their credit score will tank. But that's the consequence of defaulting on a loan. If you could default on a loan without impacting your credit score, you'd be a fool not to default on every loan you have right now - but you wouldn't actually have any loans because nobody would lend money under sucha scenario.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#139
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I go to a school infamous for its high price. And truth be told, I don’t think I could advocate going here barring some serious prerequisites. I went to a similar school. The benefits are not granted when you attend the school but afterward in the alumni network and the reputation of the school. I get in a lot more doors than I rightfully should given my qualifications because my school was more expensive (and thus…

>my school was more expensive (and thus prestigious) than most. Outside of the top 20 schools or so, I would not see the point of paying any extra for a private school, as the school's are willing to accept mostly anyone who can get a loan, which is basically everyone. The private schools that are prestigious (i.e. highly selective) have substantial aid making them very cheap for families who earn under a certain amo…

> The private schools that are prestigious (i.e. highly selective) have substantial aid making them very cheap for families who earn under a certain amount.

Have you attended all of the prestigious institutions while needing financial aid? I am familiar with a handful of the programs having been through one and worked with several people that were in others. Some schools are doing a great job enacting need blind admission, others are not.

We are not at a point where the most prestigious schools are "very cheap" to any families* except the wealthiest and the poorest (where it definitely isn't very cheap to afford plane tickets, food with the dining hall shut down, clothing so you don't stick out as being poor, etc.)

* The one exception I'm confident of is Princeton, I've heard their need blind approach is actually well implemented and I've known more than one person that graduated debt free.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what I'm failing to explain. It's not feasible to make student loans able to be eliminated via bankruptcy without restriction, since students could just go through bankruptcy right after graduation and plan around being unable to get a mortgage or car loan until they're 30. If you graduated with a degree in CS, and landed a six figure tech job it'd still make sense financially to go through bankruptcy an…

You're not failing to explain anything, what you're explaining isn't a hard concept and everyone understands what you're saying. We're just saying: it doesn't work/nor does it make sense. > Allowing student loans to be resolved through bankruptcy after 10-15 years is enough time so that most graduates have assets, and are probably looking for a mortgage on a home in the near future. Going through bankruptcy at 30 or…

Are you joking? Do you not realize that any current problems were caused by the current system?

>So instead of trying to solve the problem of crushing student debt, we let people at 30-35 tank their credit score so they can never buy anything again.

Seriously. The inability to discharge debt is the primary source of crushing debt. Predatory lenders can turn you into a debt slave through student loans and you have zero recourse. Since student loans are guaranteed by the government it doesn't matter to the lender whether you are able to pay the loan back or not. They can just give a $100k loan to someone who is 100% going to drop out. It doesn't even have to be your fault. Universities are incentivized to spend money on student retention and basically zero money on actual education.

>So we're doing NOTHING for people 22-30, and we're ruining the 30+ year old's credit so they can't actually buy a house. It doesn't help anyone. That's our point. It does nothing to solve any real problem, it just makes everything worse.

Except lenders are not going to hand out $100k loans willy nilly anymore. They will actually have to look at what and where you are studying. If students can discharge their debt then it's possible for lenders to make losses and do you know what businesses hate the most? Damn losses. Those losses will have to be covered higher interest rates and do you know what happens when people are faced with greater interest rates? The maximum principal they can borrow shrinks and there will be no more infinite flood of money that inflates tuition costs year by year. What about people that can't afford the loans? They can always choose a cheaper degree. If getting a CS, EE, civil engineering, law, medicine, whatever degree improves your employment chances so that you can pay off your loan without trouble the interest rates are going to be way down and thereby make it extremely obvious which degrees and schools are the most lucrative. You'll be able to measure the quality of a college and its degrees by the interest rates the lenders charge and even in the worst case you can get rid of the loan trivially. Collges will be able to make money off of good education instead of just admitting as many students as possible by luring them in with an expensive lifestyle.

It's funny how Americans keep telling me about the advantages of hire and fire and how it increases economic efficiency while simultaneously they have the most socialized private education industry on the entire planet which means they get none of the benefits of socialized education and none of the benefits of private education. Seriously your current system is so broken even abolishing it completely without a replacement would still lead to better outcomes than whatever crap you currently have.

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