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Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

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Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#51

Post by lotsofpulp »

zaroth wrote: post #37

The deal between the government and private colleges is that those private colleges are training our critical workforce and adding net value back into the system by increasing lifetime earnings and economic growth. The government guarantee on debt dollars right now is absolute. Schools get paid no matter what, and have no liability for actually providing an ultimately valuable service. Here’s an alternate arrangement…

> The deal between the government and private colleges is that those private colleges are training our critical workforce and adding net value back into the system by increasing lifetime earnings and economic growth.

Source? As far as I can tell, some genius politicians figured out they can lower taxes or keep taxes low by removing and reducing taxpayer funding for colleges, and replacing it with free non dischargeable loans for anyone who can fill out the FAFSA.

There is no altruism in saddling kids with debt rather than paying for schooling with tax money.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#52

Post by WaitWaitWha »

djsumdog wrote: post #4

> cut its tuition by $10,000 for all new students I find it insane tuition is that high. I finished grad school before 2010, and at least with the smaller state schools I went to, total cost of tuition and books was in the $3k~$5k range. Boutique schools like Vanderbilt were like $25k+ (per semester). I had a friend who got a free ride there for graduate school, and he said it wasn't really that different than our st…

To get a bit nuanced I read, that the subsidy is not the primary problem.

It is the guarantee of payment, even on default by the student is the problem.

That is what must go away.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#53

Post by tesmar2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #41
dnadler wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will also be disincentivized to offer those degrees at all. Which, IMO is definitely not good. Obviously these issues are nuanced and complicated...

They’re not nuanced or complicated. If society (taxpayers) want the benefit of a populace educated in those fields, they need to pay for them by funding schools.

> they need to pay for them by funding schools

I want a populace educated in those fields, and there are much betters way to do it than robbing the citizenry. One way might be to agree to work for a company afterwards who might pay for it, another to join the army in exchange for paying for it. Another might be to stop ensuring loans so that prices fall and become attainable to someone working part-time and going to school. Loans become not such a burden then, if you even want them. Lots of ways.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#54

Post by lotsofpulp »

tesmar2 wrote: post #53
lotsofpulp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not nuanced or complicated. If society (taxpayers) want the benefit of a populace educated in those fields, they need to pay for them by funding schools.

> they need to pay for them by funding schools I want a populace educated in those fields, and there are much betters way to do it than robbing the citizenry. One way might be to agree to work for a company afterwards who might pay for it, another to join the army in exchange for paying for it. Another might be to stop ensuring loans so that prices fall and become attainable to someone working part-time and going to…

Such as?

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#55

Post by tesmar2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #54
tesmar2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they need to pay for them by funding schools I want a populace educated in those fields, and there are much betters way to do it than robbing the citizenry. One way might be to agree to work for a company afterwards who might pay for it, another to join the army in exchange for paying for it. Another might be to stop ensuring loans so that prices fall and become attainable to someone working part-time and going to…

Such as?

Edited with examples.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#56

Post by sct202 »

randomdata wrote: post #38
swebs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. They've allowed students to enter into debt, the only long term contracts kids under 18 can legally sign, for something they can never declare bankruptcy on. I think that's something that many people would agree with, but how do we go forward with making that happen?

Continue to remind people that incomes have held stagnant with the rise of post secondary education – Meaning that the promise of higher incomes as a result of higher education from decades ago never materialized. The vast majority of students are only taking on these loans because they have been lead to believe that their income will increase, more than offsetting the cost of the loan. But we know very well now that…

It is detrimental to an individual to decide to sit out the whole educational arms race of degrees and credentials. I agree it would be better overall if people didn't have to go thru it. But for a single person to decide to sit it out, they're shutting themselves out of a lot of high paying jobs that only recruit college graduates. You can be successful as a high school graduate, but it's a lot easier to get your foot in the door of a lot of places if you went to the hiring manager's favorite college.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#57

Post by WaitWaitWha »

manfredo wrote: post #46
swebs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. They've allowed students to enter into debt, the only long term contracts kids under 18 can legally sign, for something they can never declare bankruptcy on. I think that's something that many people would agree with, but how do we go forward with making that happen?

Make student loans no longer exempt from bankruptcy. The rationale for making student loans persist through bankruptcy is that students could just declare bankruptcy after graduation, since they probably have no assets. Maybe make the exemption only last 10-15 years. The permanence of student loans means lenders have no qualms against writing loans for people who will likely not be able to pay them off for decades, o…

>The permanence of student loans means lenders have no qualms against writing loans for people who will likely not be able to pay them off for decades, or ever.

Worse, lenders write, and universities accept applications for people they know statistically 99.999% they will not get past the first year.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#58

Post by toyg »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #52
djsumdog wrote: post #4

> cut its tuition by $10,000 for all new students I find it insane tuition is that high. I finished grad school before 2010, and at least with the smaller state schools I went to, total cost of tuition and books was in the $3k~$5k range. Boutique schools like Vanderbilt were like $25k+ (per semester). I had a friend who got a free ride there for graduate school, and he said it wasn't really that different than our st…

To get a bit nuanced I read, that the subsidy is not the primary problem. It is the guarantee of payment, even on default by the student is the problem. That is what must go away.

That would set you back to where you were before the related law was enacted, though: droves of kids going to school with public money, then declaring bankruptcy. Public finances were getting robbed and kids had their future compromised anyway (bankruptcy is no joke).

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#59

Post by randomdata »

sct202 wrote: post #56
randomdata wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continue to remind people that incomes have held stagnant with the rise of post secondary education – Meaning that the promise of higher incomes as a result of higher education from decades ago never materialized. The vast majority of students are only taking on these loans because they have been lead to believe that their income will increase, more than offsetting the cost of the loan. But we know very well now that…

It is detrimental to an individual to decide to sit out the whole educational arms race of degrees and credentials. I agree it would be better overall if people didn't have to go thru it. But for a single person to decide to sit it out, they're shutting themselves out of a lot of high paying jobs that only recruit college graduates. You can be successful as a high school graduate, but it's a lot easier to get your fo…

It is detrimental to an individual to have disabilities that prevent going to college. Those people will statistically earn less than, for lack of a better word, normal people. And normal people will earn less than the outliers on the other end of the spectrum. If you have the capability of graduating with top honours from Stanford, there is no benefit to actually doing it. It is beneficial to be born as the kind of person who can achieve that goal.

There is no arms race, simply a misunderstanding of the data around the filtering that takes place with increasing levels of academic rigour. Those who fall down to that rigour also fall down to the rigours of the working world, statistically.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#60

Post by warmwaffles »

manfredo wrote: post #46
swebs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. They've allowed students to enter into debt, the only long term contracts kids under 18 can legally sign, for something they can never declare bankruptcy on. I think that's something that many people would agree with, but how do we go forward with making that happen?

Make student loans no longer exempt from bankruptcy. The rationale for making student loans persist through bankruptcy is that students could just declare bankruptcy after graduation, since they probably have no assets. Maybe make the exemption only last 10-15 years. The permanence of student loans means lenders have no qualms against writing loans for people who will likely not be able to pay them off for decades, o…

> Make student loans no longer exempt from bankruptcy.

The other problem is that education can not be retroactively taken from them. But garnished wages can.

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