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Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

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Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#41

Post by lotsofpulp »

dnadler wrote: post #22
anoonmoose wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then those schools will be disincentivized to charge people for degrees that won't pay for themselves, which is good which will result in more people going into degrees where people can be employed quickly at solid wages, which is good which will result in a scarcity of people going into the fields you mentioned, which will increase the wages in those fields which will incentivize people to go into them this, like mo…

They will also be disincentivized to offer those degrees at all. Which, IMO is definitely not good. Obviously these issues are nuanced and complicated...

They’re not nuanced or complicated. If society (taxpayers) want the benefit of a populace educated in those fields, they need to pay for them by funding schools.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#42

Post by underseacables »

fabian2k wrote: post #28
underseacables wrote: post #5

Incredible! Now how about those exorbitant fees and the price of textbooks!?

You might have to discourage professors from requiring specific textbooks to achieve this. To me this seems like a mostly US-specific phenomenon, while textbooks were somewhat expensive here in Germany, not to the same degree as in the US. I think my most expensive book was 80 EUR, most were cheaper than that. And almost no textbooks were actually required in the courses, most of the time you were free to choose betw…

It’s a captive audience problem. Same reason why a bottle of water can cost $8 in an airport, students are required to buy specific textbooks, sold through limited outlets. Textbooks sometimes get wrapped in to the loans which is also why schools charge so much. What bothers me are the fees, from parking to wellness to lab fees, while administrators make six figure salaries. Universities are such a financial imbalance of corruption.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#43

Post by friedman23 »

bluGill wrote: post #24
snarf21 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should start limiting tuition by making it be tied to the first year salary of students graduating from the same school with the same degree. If you want federal money, that is the rule. And room/board must be optional, you can't be forced to live on campus.

Is college a form of jobs training or a way to make yourself better? There is the disconnect, because both are true in different amounts for different people. If it is just jobs training you are correct. We shouldn't have "under water basket weaving" type courses because there is no market for that. There is some need for art, but only in the context of art is useful to make better marketing materials, so the degree…

Better by what standard? The current system is definitely better at creating half baked artists.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#44

Post by zeku »

bluGill wrote: post #24
snarf21 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should start limiting tuition by making it be tied to the first year salary of students graduating from the same school with the same degree. If you want federal money, that is the rule. And room/board must be optional, you can't be forced to live on campus.

Is college a form of jobs training or a way to make yourself better? There is the disconnect, because both are true in different amounts for different people. If it is just jobs training you are correct. We shouldn't have "under water basket weaving" type courses because there is no market for that. There is some need for art, but only in the context of art is useful to make better marketing materials, so the degree…

I think the simple answer is to look at how many Euro countries pull off having good universities for low cost... and copy them. No need to reinvent what has already been done. Just need to "port" it to America.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#45

Post by pclmulqdq »

dogman144 wrote: post #39
djsumdog wrote: post #4

> cut its tuition by $10,000 for all new students I find it insane tuition is that high. I finished grad school before 2010, and at least with the smaller state schools I went to, total cost of tuition and books was in the $3k~$5k range. Boutique schools like Vanderbilt were like $25k+ (per semester). I had a friend who got a free ride there for graduate school, and he said it wasn't really that different than our st…

> Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. The language I'm about to use pains me, but this is an extremely privileged take, or at least naive take, on what these loans do. Removing them will hurt about about a generation of students from the very low to the upper middle class set until the academic employment market adjusts. What do I mean? A simple, pragmatic fact is degree from a name-school, vs. a no-n…

These loans have destroyed any chance that a generation of underprivileged students will achieve financial prosperity.

If they go away, the federally subsidized loan programs will likely be phased out over ~5 years or so. The private sector will replace them for students who are good bets, probably with income-share agreements or something similar and MUCH less predatory than the current federal loan programs.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#46

Post by manfredo »

swebs wrote: post #25
djsumdog wrote: post #4

> cut its tuition by $10,000 for all new students I find it insane tuition is that high. I finished grad school before 2010, and at least with the smaller state schools I went to, total cost of tuition and books was in the $3k~$5k range. Boutique schools like Vanderbilt were like $25k+ (per semester). I had a friend who got a free ride there for graduate school, and he said it wasn't really that different than our st…

>Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. They've allowed students to enter into debt, the only long term contracts kids under 18 can legally sign, for something they can never declare bankruptcy on. I think that's something that many people would agree with, but how do we go forward with making that happen?

Make student loans no longer exempt from bankruptcy. The rationale for making student loans persist through bankruptcy is that students could just declare bankruptcy after graduation, since they probably have no assets. Maybe make the exemption only last 10-15 years. The permanence of student loans means lenders have no qualms against writing loans for people who will likely not be able to pay them off for decades, or ever. Reducing ability to default makes the loans more accessible, yes, but in effect it's shifting the burden to students - students who are often young people not well equipped to make long term financial decisions.

Yes, this will mean lenders will be much more reluctant to issue student loans. It will likely prompt lenders to offer loans contingent on certain majors. This is a big, big reason why universities are heavily opposed to student loan reforms. The uncomfortable reality is that many universities are funded through what essentially amounts to predatory loans, and halting the practice will cut into university funding.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#48

Post by [deleted] »

randomdata wrote: post #38
swebs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Federally subsidized student loans need to GO AWAY. They've allowed students to enter into debt, the only long term contracts kids under 18 can legally sign, for something they can never declare bankruptcy on. I think that's something that many people would agree with, but how do we go forward with making that happen?

Continue to remind people that incomes have held stagnant with the rise of post secondary education – Meaning that the promise of higher incomes as a result of higher education from decades ago never materialized. The vast majority of students are only taking on these loans because they have been lead to believe that their income will increase, more than offsetting the cost of the loan. But we know very well now that…

[deleted]

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#49

Post by lotsofpulp »

theevilsharpie wrote: post #40
anoonmoose wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then those schools will be disincentivized to charge people for degrees that won't pay for themselves, which is good which will result in more people going into degrees where people can be employed quickly at solid wages, which is good which will result in a scarcity of people going into the fields you mentioned, which will increase the wages in those fields which will incentivize people to go into them this, like mo…

Even if schools could accurately estimate the "value" of a degree based on expected future earnings, that estimate is going to be affected by a potential student's employability, and the risk that the student may not complete the program. "Tie student loan funding to the value of a degree" is a fantasy. In the real world, what would actually happen is that student loans would become limited to those who could put up…

If the goal is to provide the non wealthy with the ability to attend higher education facilities, then scholarships or grants or taxpayer funding for the school is the proper method.

Giving out blank check loans with no underwriting standards does not help the non wealthy. It results in what has already happened in the US, schools collect as much tuition money as they can since why not, and the non wealthy end up indebted for the rest of their life.

Re: Some U.S. Colleges Cut Tuition

#50

Post by tesmar2 »

zeku wrote: post #44
bluGill wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is college a form of jobs training or a way to make yourself better? There is the disconnect, because both are true in different amounts for different people. If it is just jobs training you are correct. We shouldn't have "under water basket weaving" type courses because there is no market for that. There is some need for art, but only in the context of art is useful to make better marketing materials, so the degree…

I think the simple answer is to look at how many Euro countries pull off having good universities for low cost... and copy them. No need to reinvent what has already been done. Just need to "port" it to America.

> low cost

Not low cost. They tax the hell out of their citizens.

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