Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills • Hacker News Board

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#61

Post by cpuguy83 » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

jsperson wrote: post #48

cdjk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing health insurance industry is far from free market. Try getting a price for a procedure or visit beforehand. Compare that to dental insurance. I’m always shocked when I get a treatment plant after 5 minutes that outlines exactly what the dentist needs to do, how much insurance will pay, and how much I will need to pay. Of course the set of possible treatments for dental work is a lot smaller, but it seems…

> The existing health insurance industry is far from free market. Try getting a price for a procedure or visit beforehand. Oh, I know. I've tried getting prices in the past. Traditional providers can't do it. One thing that has opened my eyes is using a Direct Primary Care (DPC) provider. I pay $75 a month for direct access to my doctor (email, text message, cell phone etc.). The access is great, but an unexpected si…

The annoying thing is, most people would agree that the whole system sucks... until you start talking about politics and suddenly you'd think a bunch of people have a love affair with their insurance company and healthcare providers.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#62

Post by jlokier » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

JacobSuperslav wrote: post #42

bearjaws wrote: post #25

Having gone through cancer treatment here in the USA, I have received over a dozen 'after the fact bills' over the past 5 years, sometimes over 9months after the procedure, mainly involving blood work and CT scans. I missed one bill that came months after chemotherapy for $87 in 2015, it only had a 60 day notice before sending to collections. Mind you I was on disability from my employer that paid well. -80pts on my…

how come in Europe credit score isn't really a thing and everything works fine? that's another thing that needs to go

I don't know if you're counting UK as part of Europe for this purpose, but in the UK credit score is definitely a thing.

It affects whether you can get a mortgage, credit card, loan, purchase credit (e.g. for buying a phone), or even a tiny overdraft, and it enormously affects how much interest you will be charged (i.e. very high or very low), and whether the credit limit you can get is zero, tiny or substantial.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#63

Post by namdnay » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

baryphonic wrote: post #44

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

> The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. Should we have single-payer markets for auto repairs, then? Or how about toilet paper, especially in a pandemic? Both of those are very inelastic, yet socialism has a particularly poor record of producing either reliably. > I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as th…

> Should we have single-payer markets for auto repairs, then? Or how about toilet paper, especially in a pandemic? Both of those are very inelastic, yet socialism has a particularly poor record of producing either reliably.

Why do you segue from single-payer to “socialism”?

Btw not sure about the states, but here in Europe, Single-payer works fine for auto repair, it’s exactly what happens when your car breaks down during the initial warranty - the garage is paid by the car manufacturer, not you. Far less stress than having to tow your car from garage to garage to get quotes :)

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#64

Post by comeonseriously » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

Something is going to have to be done at some point. Even as much money as most of us make, HC will become too expensive for us in the next decade or so, especially for any of us with a family.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#65

Post by billpg » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

baryphonic wrote: post #44

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

> The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. Should we have single-payer markets for auto repairs, then? Or how about toilet paper, especially in a pandemic? Both of those are very inelastic, yet socialism has a particularly poor record of producing either reliably. > I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as th…

Toilet paper shortages this year occurred in capitalist economies.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#66

Post by jbay808 » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

spaetzleesser wrote: post #5

standardUser wrote: post #3

The change does not apply to ambulances (except for air ambulances), ensuring the United States remains one of the few places in the world where a seriously ill person needs to debate if they're willing to risk their health and life to avoid a financially crippling trip to the hospital.

I was billed $3000 for a twenty minute ride to the hospital after somebody hit my car. I spent the time chatting with the EMTs. No treatment .

Send them a $4000 bill for your time!

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#67

Post by amelius » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #11

> Surprise bills happen when an out-of-network provider is unexpectedly involved in a patient’s care. Patients go to a hospital that accepts their insurance, for example, but get treated there by an emergency room physician who doesn’t. Such doctors often bill those patients for large fees, far higher than what health plans typically pay. How do courts uphold this? You go to a restaurant, they say you can buy the tas…

Some people wear a tag with their blood group on it.

Perhaps we should be wearing tags with the amount of money we're willing to spend on a hospital visit.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#68

Post by zaroth » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

OminousWeapons wrote: post #54

I was working on a health insurance related startup for awhile so I would say I know more than the average person about the space, and even I get surprised on a regular basis by the absurdity in this field. For example, I was finishing up an advanced degree program between September and January and my University decided to terminate my health insurance in September. Without telling me. In the middle of a pandemic. Wh…

The intent here is to prevent people from gaming the system by buying insurance only right after a serious diagnosis.

There are several qualifying events to be able to enroll outside the eligibility window if you’ve had a job change for example.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#69

Post by Causality1 » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

I think there's a difference between your philosophical ideal and the way you would set a society up and the approach you believe would best address the problems and situations we currently face.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#70

Post by HeyImAlex » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

I had to provide a urine sample to get my ADHD medication. It was sold to me under the auspices of drug testing, even though ADHD meds are out of your system in 48h. A month later I received an explanation of benefits from my insurance company that said they received a 14k bill and had paid 4k of it, so I was on the hook for the other 10k. Furious I went to my psych. They casually said “we’ve taken care of it, you shouldn’t receive an actual bill”. Uh, that’s not the point? The point is why was it necessary to send my urine for 14k in testing in the first place? You cannot convince me they weren’t getting kickbacks from this program. Finding a new psych is difficult, so the next time they asked me to pee in a cup I asked if they’d charge my insurance the same way again. I haven’t been asked for a urine sample since, which is odd considering they have signs clearly posted saying drug tests are mandatory. I guess not _that_ mandatory, huh?

It’s wild that individuals are forced to navigate this system, much less fight it when they’re being fucked. The idea that there are people who’s sole purpose is designing beurocratic gears to grind money out of sick people makes me sick. And they employ an army of low wage call center folks to do their bidding, work that I can’t imagine is super rewarding. How much better would the world be if we tore down these machines and paid all of those people to do literally anything else?