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Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

nytimes.com

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Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#51

Post by goldenManatee »

cdjk wrote: post #19
jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

The existing health insurance industry is far from free market. Try getting a price for a procedure or visit beforehand. Compare that to dental insurance. I’m always shocked when I get a treatment plant after 5 minutes that outlines exactly what the dentist needs to do, how much insurance will pay, and how much I will need to pay. Of course the set of possible treatments for dental work is a lot smaller, but it seems…

And often every price the dental office provides you is an estimate, as once they enter each procedure’s code the insurance may price that work above or below the estimated price. That’s dental, which often isn’t life or death. If you’re in an ER or ICU you’re not processing “by golly, can I afford saving myself or should I negotiate the hospital’s Tylenol?”

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#52

Post by jrumbut »

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

It's worse than that, my wife got one of these bills from a provider who was never in her hospital room. The bill ended up getting waived but it was for more than the rest of the stay.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#54

Post by OminousWeapons »

I was working on a health insurance related startup for awhile so I would say I know more than the average person about the space, and even I get surprised on a regular basis by the absurdity in this field.

For example, I was finishing up an advanced degree program between September and January and my University decided to terminate my health insurance in September. Without telling me. In the middle of a pandemic. When I discovered this last week, I attempted to buy health insurance directly from insurers and was informed that I could not get coverage until January 1st of 2021 as I was "outside the eligibility window". They literally won't sell active coverage to me at any price. Apparently you only have two months after losing your insurance to be able to buy new insurance before having to wait until specific times in the year. I can buy home insurance, liability insurance, car insurance, and any other type of insurance whenever I want but god forbid I try to buy health insurance 61 days after an arbitrary point in the year. I effectively cannot go outside until January 1st as if I get covid and have to go to the hospital I'm screwed.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#55

Post by t0mbstone »

dpeck wrote: post #28
curiousgal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just appalling to see a nation as smart, rich and well accomplished as the U.S. being straight up retarded when it comes to healthcare.

That is inappropriate word choice here or anywhere. Remove your slur.

re·tard verb past tense: retarded; past participle: retarded /riˈtärd/ delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment. "our progress was retarded by unforeseen difficulties"

It seems to me that the word's usage is an accurate description of America's lack of progress in this area...

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#56

Post by OkGoDoIt »

c22 wrote: post #38
jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

It won't work. They'll still charge you for the interrogation!

Is this a snarky comment or is this an actual experience that’s happened to you or someone you know? I’m genuinely curious, I can definitely imagine hospitals trying something like this…

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#57

Post by bfieidhbrjr »

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

There's no "market" in healthcare in the US.

Long ago, it became illegal to open a hospital without a 'certificate of need' from the State. That's why so many towns have only one hospital - it's a government granted monopoly like cable companies in the 80s.

Differential pricing is also illegal. You fly cheap on Sunday at 3am, expensive on Monday at 9am. Healthcare providers are not allowed to charge less when it's cheap to do so, for example allowing you to do an MRI cheaper at 3am.

Your employer picks a monopoly insurer for you to chose a plan from.

The list goes on and on. There's no market here, it's a set of monopolies. It should be legal to open a hospital. Differential pricing should be legal. Your employer should let you chose from at least two insurers.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#58

Post by cpuguy83 »

tehjoker wrote: post #47
cdjk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing health insurance industry is far from free market. Try getting a price for a procedure or visit beforehand. Compare that to dental insurance. I’m always shocked when I get a treatment plant after 5 minutes that outlines exactly what the dentist needs to do, how much insurance will pay, and how much I will need to pay. Of course the set of possible treatments for dental work is a lot smaller, but it seems…

Price discovery doesn't help you. If you get knocked out, heart attack, your arm cut off, whatever (i.e. a lot of the expensive stuff) you just go to the nearest hospital, no consumer market finagling is even possible other than trying to live near a good hospital. Other times with chronic conditions where theoretically price discovery could help, the problem is that you need care badly so all the chronic care provid…

The sad thing is, as expensive as healthcare is they probably have to jack up those rates because they are getting screwed everywhere else. In the end, though, the consumer is always the one who ends up getting the ultimate screw... exactly why healthcare shouldn't be seen as a service to consume.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#59

Post by matsemann »

dandersh wrote: post #37
standardUser wrote: post #3

The change does not apply to ambulances (except for air ambulances), ensuring the United States remains one of the few places in the world where a seriously ill person needs to debate if they're willing to risk their health and life to avoid a financially crippling trip to the hospital.

When our youngest was born the nurses (incorrectly) thought his blood sugar was low and had him transferred to a different hospital via ambulance. We were able to fight and get the $2000 bill waived on account of the fact that it was a needless trip. Unfortunately my wife spent the night alone as I was with our son. On a somewhat related note in the span of 10 years the cost to us to deliver our kids doubled. Same ho…

In most of the rest of the western world, the cost of childbirth is mainly the parking fee and snacks from a vending machine while waiting.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#60

Post by [deleted] »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #49
mehrdadn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m always shocked when I get a treatment plant after 5 minutes that outlines exactly what the dentist needs to do, how much insurance will pay, and how much I will need to pay. What you don't know (unless you get 2nd/3rd/4th opinions from good dentists) is how necessary those truly are. Some dentists just work around things by recommending things you don't need. (Fill teeth, taking panorex, etc. unnecessarily)

Doctors disagree about medical treatment too. At least with the dentist you'll know how much each opinion costs.

[deleted]
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