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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#141

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

varjag wrote: post #39
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #4

Heartbreaking, but they are a "survivor" company. They have lasted over 100 years, through a world war (including firestorm bombing), earthquakes, fires and tsunamis. They had never been particularly big, until the 1990s, with the advent of point-and-shoot digital cameras. That gravy train ended when the iPhone came out. They are probably contracting to their more traditional role, of Big Black Cameras, as well as so…

> They have some of the finest scientists and engineers in the world, as well as a gigantic portfolio of patents. They aren't going away. Kodak would like to have a word.

I should have also mentioned that they are very fiscally conservative. They barely carry any debt. A lot of their cost-cutting is proactive, as opposed to reactive.

That's a philosophy that I have followed, myself, and I find it is quite effective.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#142

Post by Lio »

lizknope wrote: post #51

Between my father and I we have 11 Nikon DSLRs starting from 2005. I think 8 of them were made in Thailand and 3 were made in Japan. They all work fine. One of the Thailand cameras had a shutter issue after 2 years and I had it repaired. All of the other cameras have been flawless. Even my D70 from 2005 was made in Thailand and still works today although I converted it to infrared use.

I loved the old D70. It's still a useful camera for me for the electronic shutter which handily means you can sync the with flash at any speed.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#143

Post by Dirlewanger »

KineticLensman wrote: post #90
varjag wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have some of the finest scientists and engineers in the world, as well as a gigantic portfolio of patents. They aren't going away. Kodak would like to have a word.

> Kodak would like to have a word They will have to join the queue behind a lot of Swiss watchmakers.

Is there really that many watchmakers on their deathbeds? Every couple of months I'll spend several hours wasting time looking for watch styles I like and I'm amazed at how many traditional watchmakers are still out there, some with 0 smartwatch offerings.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#144

Post by jedimastert »

dsego wrote: post #134
meowzero wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The X100 series is a cool camera. I had one since the first version of X100. But I found it more convenient to pull my phone out instead of carrying that camera. I do have a X-T2 if I want to take more "serious" photos.

I have an x-t30 and my phone can't even compare. It's an entry level Samsung and those have really bad and slow cameras, esp in low light. A flagship might be a different story. Tbh, I wasn't that impressed with the fuji camera with the included 15-45 kit lens, which is rather mediocre. But after getting the 35mm f2 I can really appreciate the difference in the quality of photos. The other part is doing a course on p…

> The other part is doing a course on photography and learning the manual settings.

I will concede that I'm not the average consumer and already had "manual mode" camera experience

> Without that, there is really no reason to use anything but a smartphone.

I would disagree with that sentiment, but I'm on the other side of the fence of knowledge, so it's hard for me to say

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#145

Post by bgrsgeg »

dagw wrote: post #135
numair wrote: post #42

Nikon hasn’t really made an amazing camera since the days of the F5 (the weapon of choice for greats such as Peter Lindbergh). I really feel that Japan Inc. needs a version of that Stephen Elop “burning platform” rant.

Bah. The F3 was their last great camera. After that it's been nothing but pointless 'hi tech' bells and whistles /s

The F3 is an amazing camera. The F5 great is you want to have to bother with electronics (I'm faster without the electronics, but to each his own). Digital SLRs are an example of entrenched technology that doesn't make sense.

DSLR don't make sense. The mirror in film SLRs was always a compromise [1] that doesn't exist once you have a digital sensor. It was a compromise that became popular, at least in 35mm. The DSLR was a legacy format that was "professional" only because camera manufacturers would put things like big focus motors on mirrorless cameras. Market forces slowed the adoption of mirrorless and gave the SLR a reprieve to their inescapable demise.

So in a sense, ya, the F5 is greater than any D-SLR. The F5 is the pinnacle of the SLR, an excellent solution in the film domain. Digital SLRs are compromised format for a solution no longer needed.

[1] The SLR lets you see what the film will actually see. +1. The SLR has mirror shake -1, and a film plane that's far from the last lens element -1. For small "sensors" like 35mm, it (usually) wasn't that big a problem (lightweight mirrors, geometrically smaller distances between lens and focal plane). For medium format, SLRs (like Hassleblad) were neck in neck with other solutions (Rollei, Fujifilm). For large format, I don't think there was any SLR made.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#146

Post by epx »

x87678r wrote: post #72

I bought a new SLR body probably every 5 years for the last 40. My newest smartphones are so good I've given up. Yes if you want crisp incredible detail, or if its your wedding you need an SLR, but no other reason.

I do see a big difference but it is another expensive ecosystem to maintain, it is difficult to justify for a thing that can only take pictures and I have no hope of making a buck with to offset costs.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#147

Post by milkytron »

KineticLensman wrote: post #105
oblio wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why/which watchmakers?

The ones who used to make clockwork watches just before digital watches appeared in the 1970s. They failed to invest in time and lost a lot of market share. To be fair, unlike Kodak and cameras, they weren't completely wiped out, and the high-end precision Swiss watch is still a thing. Incidentally, recent sales have apparently been massively affected by COVID, as many of them are sold in bricks-and-mortar boutiques…

> Incidentally, recent sales have apparently been massively affected by COVID, as many of them are sold in bricks-and-mortar boutiques that customers are no longer visiting.

I'd argue not having to go into an office and "dress up" has impacted the watch market as well. If I'm at home all day, I don't really need a clock on my wrist.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#148

Post by bee_rider »

dsego wrote: post #131
bee_rider wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty wild to think that, like, 20 years ago digital camera had relatively nice little screens on them and relatively good processing, while phones had those silly little green-and-black LCDs. I wonder if there's an alternate universe where people are saying "Nokia seems to be really doomed. This is sad but not surprising -- smartcamera antennas have gotten good enough that you can get reception almost anywher…

The camera manufacturers seem to be set in their ways. Wouldn't it be cool if you could load a sim card into your smart-camera & use android apps for cool features, like proper HDR (not the manual bracketing stuff), maybe apply some casual third-party filters, or instant streaming and sharing on social platforms. But maybe the target market, the professional photographers, are also the older generation that care more…

I suspect another aspect to it is that camera manufacturers didn't even really want to go digital at all. They had a nice revenue stream in the form of "selling rolls of film" that would have kept them happy indefinitely. It isn't easy to obsolete your main lifeline.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#149

Post by billfruit »

beagle3 wrote: post #22
robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

On a tangent are 'liquid lenses' anywhere near making an impact in consumer imaging products?

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#150

Post by wenc »

bgrsgeg wrote: post #138

I think cameras are done. And not because of cellphones. I think Lytro did them in. First a cop out to what I'm about to say. My arguments are specifically for geometric optics as used in photography. Also, my argument is in the limit that (non-optical) technology gets better. Also, while I took (and loved) many optics classes at university a lifetime ago, I ultimately did not become an optical engineer. I'm sure the…

I remember Lytro. Being able to adjust focus in post was an exciting feature, but the cameras themselves were expensive and had lower quality sensors than the cameras of that time (ca 2012).

As you say, the implementation failed but it demonstrated that the technology was feasible. Now the IP is with Google. I'm just waiting for the day when someone perfects light-field technology for cell phone cameras.

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