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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#121

Post by cactus2093 »

robotmay wrote: post #38
beagle3 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

I think you’re about 2 or 3 years too late with this comment. The switch to mirrorless is already here, Nikon and Canon have the majority of their core lens lineups out already for these platforms so it’s unlikely they’d replace them again for the next decade or longer.

And yes, they are mostly better than previous generations across the board. Which is pretty cool, that something based on such a simple idea that’s been around hundreds of years still has room for major improvements.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#122

Post by bewareandaware »

bee_rider wrote: post #112
meowzero wrote: post #106

I've been around photography for a while. This is sad news but not surprising. Mobile phones have gotten good enough that you don't need a DSLR anymore to take "nice pictures." All the computational photography to create fake bokeh, good low-light photos, etc. pretty much ate up all the demand for DSLR. If you look at the photos on a big monitor, you can spot the difference between a DSLR and smartphone. But on a sma…

It is pretty wild to think that, like, 20 years ago digital camera had relatively nice little screens on them and relatively good processing, while phones had those silly little green-and-black LCDs. I wonder if there's an alternate universe where people are saying "Nokia seems to be really doomed. This is sad but not surprising -- smartcamera antennas have gotten good enough that you can get reception almost anywher…

I read your comment and felt like I was doing magic mushrooms

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#123

Post by Hamuko »

perardi wrote: post #120

I fear for Nikon, even though I suspect they have lifelines, given Bank of Japan’s quantitative easing. They’re the least diversified of the big camera companies. Sony has…a lot, from semiconductors to financial instruments. Canon has high-end video, scanners, and enterprise printing and copying. Nikon has photography-oriented cameras, some medical optics, and semiconductor equipment, and that’s about it. They’re jus…

Do more boutique camera companies like Leica just survive on their (what I assume to be) large margins?

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#124

Post by y04nn »

m463 wrote: post #108
robotmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

I don't know, the nikon p1000 is ~ 3000 mm equivalent by designing the sensor+lens together. On the other hand, it doesn't behave like a good canon ultrasonic lens with immediate focus. not at all.

The Nikon P1000 has a 539mm zoom lens with extremely small sensor: 1/2.3". And it's probably a contrast based focus system. I would not expect good results from such camera.

Sensor size comparison: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sensor_sizes_overlai...

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#125

Post by varispeed »

meowzero wrote: post #106

I've been around photography for a while. This is sad news but not surprising. Mobile phones have gotten good enough that you don't need a DSLR anymore to take "nice pictures." All the computational photography to create fake bokeh, good low-light photos, etc. pretty much ate up all the demand for DSLR. If you look at the photos on a big monitor, you can spot the difference between a DSLR and smartphone. But on a sma…

Oh I wish this AI photo craze died out. I see that it may appeal to some people as a kind of "nicerising" effect, but without the context a casual viewer may take the picture as unaltered snapshot of the world. Of course the alterations are rather minute in the grand scheme of things, but if we continue looking at these taking them without context, I wonder how our perception of the world will get detached from reality? I think pictures computed by AI should be specially marked to let viewer know they don't look at the real thing.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#126

Post by mmaunder »

beagle3 wrote: post #22
robotmay wrote: post #11

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

The cine lens and professional photographer lens market is big and irreplaceable until they figure out how, for example, to make an f4 600mm prime without a 150mm front element. Many problems to solve until we see the last days of optical professional lenses. Price points for these start at $2000, the cine lenses are around $4500 for primes and that 600mm I mentioned is a Canon lens, has a front element grown from fluorite crystal and runs about $12,000 and is currently on version 4.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#127

Post by petepete »

geerlingguy wrote: post #86
robotmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

Nikon has been making PF, or Phased Fresnel, lenses for a number of years too. The 300mm f4 is a head-turner due to its tiny size and diminutive weight, while still being as good as the old 300mm in almost every way. They also have a 500mm 5.6 that's similarly tiny (compared to a non-PF version) and hard to get.

I've had the 300PF for several years and it's my most-used lens. I photograph birds and wildlife and being able to fit an extremely-good setup (a D500 with 300PF) into my smallest camera bag (Lowepro hatchback 16l) encourages me to take it on almost every outing.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#128

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

KineticLensman wrote: post #105
oblio wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why/which watchmakers?

The ones who used to make clockwork watches just before digital watches appeared in the 1970s. They failed to invest in time and lost a lot of market share. To be fair, unlike Kodak and cameras, they weren't completely wiped out, and the high-end precision Swiss watch is still a thing. Incidentally, recent sales have apparently been massively affected by COVID, as many of them are sold in bricks-and-mortar boutiques…

I have been seeing a lot of Apple Watches on wrists, lately.

Lots of AirPods, too.

But that is anecdotal, from a limited geographic perspective.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#129

Post by foo_barrio »

formerly_proven wrote: post #56
robotmay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting: Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm I think we'll see a b…

> At the moment lens prices are pretty bonkers but I think that Canon f/11 lens is a great indicator; it's basically less than 1/10th of the cost of a traditional 800mm lens and does more than enough for most people. But that tradeoff seems hardly new to me. Consumer 70-300 for ~300 $ vs. Pro 70-200 for 2000+ $. The "only" difference is build quality and the pro lens being 2-3 stops brighter. Price difference: ~10x.

As far as optical quality goes, focusing only on f-stops is like focusing on horsepower for cars. Even in f-stops, not all f-stops are equal since some lens transmit more light than others at the same f-stop. This is called t-stops and is used a lot of in pro video lenses.

Another example is if I focus on something and then zoom in and out some lenses have to refocus and others maintain focus. This is an important feature for video and any kind of fast shooting. Many lenses have much more "focus breathing" than others. That is, the change of the effective focal lens as the lens focuses closer and closer. I had a lens that was 200mm but it was really only at infinity. At close focus is was closer to 135mm since the focus breathing was so pronounced.

Bokeh, chromatic/comatic abberations, geometric distortion are other things I can go on and on about.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#130

Post by dagw »

formerly_proven wrote: post #58
criley2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university facility, that work better than some $500 lens -- and the latter are expensive because they are hard to make the traditional way. I find this very fascinating because while I enjoy my ever-increasing smartphone camera and use it as a daily driver, I have a about 13 year old Canon DSLR (one of the first one they made now)…

I use a little bit newer Nikon DSLR (~2013), which adds another thing (the first generation of DSLRs wasn't really good at this): Color. The color of iPhones is just bleirgh in comparison, which is a little bit weird considering the cargoculting on HN of Apple's "computational photography".

The color of iPhones is just bleirgh in comparison

They're trying to solve two different problems. Nikon want to reproduce colors that are balanced and accurate. Apple want to produced colors that 'pop' and catch peoples eye when scrolling through Instagram.

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