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Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

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Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#31
post #24

Huh, that doesn't sound like news. I'm pretty sure that my D70s, over 15 years old by now, was produced in Thailand too. Maybe they always built the cheaper models over there?

Yes. Only the upper-end cameras were produced in Japan, as well as the top-tier lenses.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#32

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

Cameras =!= Lenses. I always found Nikon cameras more my taste than canon. But that is just taste, in terms of quality, in the sense of the pictures, I never saw a difference. Not back the day when we still developed our black and white pictures ourselves and not now with digital cameras. Lenses on the other hand a different thing altogether. There I saw defferences between the "cheaper" Sigma and the premium Nikkor…

I think camera bodies make a much larger difference these days than lenses, actually. Obviously the lens still makes a notable difference, and for certain forms, like wildlife photography, the lens requirements are inescapable. The new models out in the past few years have absolutely incredible low-light performance that completely change the lens landscape, even; you can now ditch the requirement of carrying a hefty f/2.8 400mm lens around and swap it out for a lightweight f/4 with a camera that more than compensates for the light loss.

But with the capabilities of modern cameras the production requirements for them are high and the challenge to make something that works for a variety of consumers even higher. I can't even look at a camera that isn't "weather-proofed" as I live in a place with a 90% chance of rain at any moment, for example. And a lot of these advancements are designed to work in combination with the lenses, such as in-body and in-lens stabilisation working together, weather seals that line up, etc. I think it's pretty important to maintain the same manufacturing quality between the two areas. I'm sure that's possible when moving production to Thailand, but I expect it will take time for them to iron out their processes.

My personal experience of Canon vs Nikon is that I prefer the software of Canon, and historically I preferred the physical ergonomics of Nikon, but the newest Canon models have improved a lot there. On the lens side it was always Canon for me, although I do have a lot of love for Sigma: my 150-600mm Sigma lens has a USB dock where I can actually manually configure the autofocus, among other things, which appeals to my gadget side (and honestly their quality has jumped up massively in the past decade).

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is stupid, it’s just because you can’t. Most Nikon models don’t have a clean hdmi output and limit video recording to twenty minutes.

The twenty minute thing is because of device classification. If a device records twenty minutes or more of continuous video, it is classified as a video device, which changes the regulatory structure. If you watch movies, these days, it's almost unheard of for a single shot to be more than a minute or two in length. Even films like 1917 are really digitally-stitched montages. I think the real reason is that Canon is…

Are you sure about the clasification? From what I heard the main issue is often cooling. Cameras and sensors are often not engineered as video capturing devices, so recording time needs to be limited to prevent overheating. Often you cannot just stop and re-start the recording after the recording limit, because the camera is still too hot, it will stop recording after a few seconds.

At least this is how it works for Fujifilm X-series cameras (which have higher recording limits though and are frequently used as hybrid cameras for video recording jobs).

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#34
Where in the world is Sony and Canon cameras produced?

I bought a sony android phone (which after a lot of research seems to be produced in Japan) to my father because he refuses to use anything produced in China and I am also very hesitant to buy stuff that is produced in countries that don't generally care about quality, the environment etc. I have thought about buying a Nikon for a long time but this maybe will make me reevaluate that pick.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The twenty minute thing is because of device classification. If a device records twenty minutes or more of continuous video, it is classified as a video device, which changes the regulatory structure. If you watch movies, these days, it's almost unheard of for a single shot to be more than a minute or two in length. Even films like 1917 are really digitally-stitched montages. I think the real reason is that Canon is…

Are you sure about the clasification? From what I heard the main issue is often cooling. Cameras and sensors are often not engineered as video capturing devices, so recording time needs to be limited to prevent overheating. Often you cannot just stop and re-start the recording after the recording limit, because the camera is still too hot, it will stop recording after a few seconds. At least this is how it works for…

Well, it was what was explained to me by a marketing manager.

The cooling thing hasn't been an issue for many years, since they changed their sensor design.

Might also be a power-consumption thing, as the shutter needs to be kept open (I don't think they are using virtual shutters, yet), as well as (for DSLRs) the mirror.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#36
post #7
post #5

The article states: > Don’t think this is enough to make them stay in the business. Troubling times for Nikon :( Is there some context on this? Is Nikon facing trouble, and if yes, why?

Phone cameras would seem to jump out as the logical reason to me. Yes, everyone knows that DSLRs are way better than phone cameras and give way more control, but... the best camera is the one that’s with you.

I can understand how it eats into the compact camera market (I wanted to buy a compact camera a year ago, and essentially all models on the market today are from 2005-2010 and usually vastly inferior in quality to a high-end phone). However, while a lot of photographers use something like an iPhone in addition to a regular camera, good cameras are still needed.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#37
post #23
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for the Japanese market, not ‘made in Japan’ is a big downgrade in perception.

That ship has mostly sailed, and people seem to be OK with ‘made by a Japanese company’ For instance Sony products are not seen as ‘made in China’, just ‘made by Sony’

Sony quality is crap, and that is due to production in China. The name is now synonymous with junk.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#38
post #22

Oof, that's not a good sign. For me, Japan is the place for the best camera and lens manufacturing. Most of the makers seem to split their manufacturing between Japan for their quality models/lenses and cheaper countries for the consumer stuff, which I think is a valid compromise. But this feels short-sighted on Nikon's part and rather like they have already failed. Perhaps instead of relocating their production they…

Traditional lens manufacturing is likely in its last days (which can easily take a decade or two, but ... the end is visible). Modern lens are made with techniques perfected in semiconductor manufacturing, and use advances in material science (meta materials in particular). I don't know how close this is to mass market, but I've seen superthin flat lens, with a marginal cost of production around ~$2 in a university f…

There's a couple of lens advancements I've seen recently that I found particularly interesting:

Canon putting Fresnel elements in their lenses to reduce size/weight: https://kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/400mm-f4-do-is-ii.htm

Canon making an f/11 800mm super telephoto lens that can still autofocus thanks to the new mirrorless camera bodies: https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/800mm.htm

I think we'll see a big pivot in the market (we're already seeing it, really) with the switch to mirrorless. What I'm hoping we'll see is a total rethink of what's possible in a lens; adapting this new technology to make new designs that exceed what was possible before, rather than just matching it. If they can bring costs down by making use of this new tech then I think it will re-open the market for "I want something that does more than a phone camera". At the moment lens prices are pretty bonkers but I think that Canon f/11 lens is a great indicator; it's basically less than 1/10th of the cost of a traditional 800mm lens and does more than enough for most people.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#39

Heartbreaking, but they are a "survivor" company. They have lasted over 100 years, through a world war (including firestorm bombing), earthquakes, fires and tsunamis. They had never been particularly big, until the 1990s, with the advent of point-and-shoot digital cameras. That gravy train ended when the iPhone came out. They are probably contracting to their more traditional role, of Big Black Cameras, as well as so…

> They have some of the finest scientists and engineers in the world, as well as a gigantic portfolio of patents. They aren't going away.

Kodak would like to have a word.

Re: Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan

#40
post #20
post #5

The article states: > Don’t think this is enough to make them stay in the business. Troubling times for Nikon :( Is there some context on this? Is Nikon facing trouble, and if yes, why?

In the short term: The pandemic. "Camera Sales in 2020 Have Plummeted As Much As 54%" https://petapixel.com/2020/11/06/camera-sales-in-2020-have-p...

Weird. With people stuck at home, and less time spent commuting and socialising, I'd have imagined hobbies like photography to take off.
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