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The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

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Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#281

Post by shoyer »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #193
wwweston wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone who swears that MSG is bad for health do so because they personally hold anti-chinese racist views? Probably not. Is it possible that: * the MSG mythology in some Western nation was proposed by those with some degree of bias against foreign things or chinese cuisine or people specifically * it caught on and was repeated by people who were enthusiastic about it because of some degree of that bias * MSG was…

It totally is systemic racism. But I wish there was another word for it, or that racism were not used interchangeably with systemic racism. There's a hell of a difference between "you're racist" and "you're spreading misinformation that only exists because your grandparents were racist". The latter will get a reaction from the vast majority of people like "oh shit, I had no idea, that's awful". The former will cause…

Not being a “conscious racist” doesn’t make you any less racist. Racism isn’t about intentions, it’s about consequences. It’s a convenient slight of to pretend otherwise.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#283

Post by cool-guy-69 »

balola wrote: post #280

The problem is, modern Chinese food rely too much on MSG(or its alternatives, along with chilies), it has its justification that Chinese are only relative rich recently, that people needed a way to make cabbages and other non-meat stuff tasty, in this sense, Chinese food is defined by it, unfortunately. I honestly can't imagine how they tasted way back then, coz it must be awful. But the thing is MSG is like drugs, y…

What in the world? Did you even read the article?

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#284

Post by newen »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #268
newen wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Six times is in the same order of magnitude, so it’s entirely plausible that a significant number of people would be affect by MSG with its normal dose. And it’s entirely plausible that some restaurants would put six times the normal dose in some meals, especially fast food restaurants that don’t use standardized measurements like Chinese restaurants.

> Six times is in the same order of magnitude I don't think this sentence has any meaning. What is "the same order of magnitude"? By the normal definition (still not great, but at least it's well-defined), 6 times x is only in the same order of magnitude as x when x is in the range [0,1.7), and it's in the next order of magnitude up when x is in [1.7,10). Even if we adjust that to a log scale, 6x is in the same order…

Give me a break, this is not a math lecture. Less than 10x means the same magnitude is good enough for forum posting.

The underlying message that some restaurants might plausibly put 6x the MSG of the standard dose comes across just fine and it doesn’t need to be nitpicked to hell.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#285

Post by mgh2 »

louisvgchi wrote: post #10

Dave Chang has a small scene in one of his Ugly Delicious (great show, by the way) episodes where he gets a group of non-Asian Americans, who claim to be MSG-allergic, to come and share their stories of MSG-related symptoms after eating at Chinese restaurants. He then hands out Doritos and American products that the participants claim they love and can eat all day. Hard to see where this is going... he says, all thes…

Maybe people who suffered got confused with the "Fried Rice Syndrome"?

https://biomedgrid.com/fulltext/volume5/fried-rice-syndrome-....

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#286

Post by zdragnar »

shoyer wrote: post #281
reitzensteinm wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It totally is systemic racism. But I wish there was another word for it, or that racism were not used interchangeably with systemic racism. There's a hell of a difference between "you're racist" and "you're spreading misinformation that only exists because your grandparents were racist". The latter will get a reaction from the vast majority of people like "oh shit, I had no idea, that's awful". The former will cause…

Not being a “conscious racist” doesn’t make you any less racist. Racism isn’t about intentions, it’s about consequences. It’s a convenient slight of to pretend otherwise.

"Racism isn’t about intentions"

Appropriating words to steal the emotional strength of them for your own, novel concept is silly. Not everyone will buy the new definition, and you'll end up with two groups yelling at each other, about different things, with no common understanding.

If you cannot read "racism isn't about intentions" and not laugh, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#287

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

many many year ago, probably more than a decade, i saw on the discovery channel (when it still was worth watching) in programs like food detectives and a few others how MSG was harmless and this was a myth. Since then never gave it much thought because they bunked a myth and that was it

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#288

Post by rectang »

pmoriarty wrote: post #95
throwaway201103 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All humans are racist to one degree or another.

That racism is "natural" and that "everyone's racist" are common (false) claims among racists, who try to use them as excuses for their own racism.

I'd consider myself very socially liberal, but I accept that at least everyone experiences prejudiced thoughts and impulses.

From that premise we can proceed to the idea that "racists" act on those impulses, while people who are "not racist" resist them. However, these impulses can be extremely subtle, and no matter how we struggle, I don't believe that that any human being lives a life avoiding racist acts entirely.

Would you still argue that I'm a racist perpetuating a false claim as an excuse for my own racism? I mean, I accept that I'm prejudiced and every once in a while racist despite my best efforts, so that part is true in a sense. I'm don't think I'm trying to excuse myself, though.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#289

Post by rubicon33 »

ineedasername wrote: post #265
rubicon33 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called being biased, misinformed, or at worst stereotyping, and it used to be accepted that everyone does it and it's not the end of the world that your aunt from Wisconson thinks MSG gives her hives. Nowadays that aunt is racist, her whole family is racist, and it's the reason why everyone else can't get ahead in life.

I might agree that the pendulum has swung too far, but we also now have a better understanding of how bias and stereotyping can nonetheless be damaging. though yes, racism is much too loaded of a term to be thrown around the way it currently is. If you admit to no gradations, well that's when you get cancel culture, when a joke in poor taste that might reveal some bias can result in the same consequences as blatant h…

Totally. Some might even say it was a necessary evil, that the pendulum swung far, for progress to be made.

I'm glad that society as a whole recognizes systemic "racism" and how unfair the world is for many. I'd love nothing more than for us as a world community to move toward a reality that is a true meritocracy and equal opportunity isn't just a buzz word. Who can honestly say they enjoy unfair advantage? No one.

That said, not everything is a product of your race/gender. We have a long way to go and I hope we don't eat each other before we get there. The cancel culture and reverse racism that I'm seeing is an unfortunate side effect of "progress".

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#290

Post by yomly »

yongjik wrote: post #26
louisvgchi wrote: post #10

Dave Chang has a small scene in one of his Ugly Delicious (great show, by the way) episodes where he gets a group of non-Asian Americans, who claim to be MSG-allergic, to come and share their stories of MSG-related symptoms after eating at Chinese restaurants. He then hands out Doritos and American products that the participants claim they love and can eat all day. Hard to see where this is going... he says, all thes…

I wish people stopped invoking racism everywhere, when plain "being misinformed" explains things just fine. Millions of Koreans swear up and down that MSG is bad for health. Are we also being racist? (Against whom?)

Exactly - it's definitely not racism. I do experience "chinese restaurant syndrome" (maybe the name is prejudiced???) when I get dim sum in the UK, US, Canada, sometimes Singapore but rarely in Hong Kong. Stuff like 豉汁蒸排骨 and 糯米鸡can be the worst. Generally, I dislike cantonese restaurant food outside of China/HK and that's really not racist given I have cantonese origins. I experience "Chinese restaurant syndrome" less when I consume "mainland" chinese food - like Sichuan, Hunan, Xinjiang, Shanxi food.

Who knows whether it's MSG - I definitely don't experience that lethargy eating Japanese food. But I'm also unconvinced that MSG and konbu/katsuo dashi are the same thing. The viewpoint "chemical x is chemical x in all its delivery mechanisms" is remarkably naive. The chemistry of digestion is really quite complex and the purified salt of something rather than in-aqua extraction to direct consumption REALLY is not the same thing. You ignore all kinds of subtle interactions that could be going on and is wholly unnuanced. Anyone who has spent any time in a chem/biochem lab knows all too well the strange and weird world of solvation and impurity and its effects on reactions, not to mention enzyme chemistry is insanely sensitive.

It's not the same but just compare smooth vs pulpy orange juice vs eating a raw orange. The nutrition profiles of that already are different even if you are par for #oranges consumed.

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