Live data from Hacker News

The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

news.colgate.edu

171–180 of 373 posts

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably should look at more than just the start date for that act. > Exclusion was repealed by the Magnuson Act on December 17, 1943, which allowed 105 Chinese to enter per year. Chinese immigration later increased [to 2000/year from the "Asiatic barred zone"] with the passage of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which abolished direct racial barriers, and later by the Immigration and Nationality Act…

Fair enough. That's still over half a century ago. Everyone involved in setting these barriers are dead.

Some of the technical debt in my codebase at work was put there by programmers who have long since left the company, too.

It still has significant impact.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#172
This article was subsequently debunked by This American life, and many of the comments here are confused.

Dr Kwak was a real person, and the letter contains historical facts linking it to him. His family says the letter is genuine. According to blind studies, the symptoms described in it are experienced by a small percentage of the population, but MSG is harmless to everyone else.

The article links to the This American Life podcast in question, here is the transcript:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/668/transcript

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#173
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a posting board not an appropriate place for sharing personal experiences?

This could be a good place for that, but it would bolster your case if you were to add some more details. For example, did you conclude that it increased your blood sugar because you wear a continuous glucose monitor and did a self-blinded home experiment with MSG? Then absolutely yes, your info is incredibly valuable. If on the other hand your data is at the level of "I often feel tired after going to Chinese restau…

Yes, there was blood testing data that had skyrocketed and an insulin requirement 8-10 times the normal amount for the given set of carbohydrates and time of day adjustments.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#174
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there are unfortunately too much hate among different East Asians, but it doesn't seem relevant here. I mean, if you think Koreans' fear of MSG is somehow related to our prejudice against Chinese/Japanese cuisine, then clearly you haven't seen many Korean dishes.

I think that just reinforces the point. If your culture eats tons of food that’s packed to the brim with glutamate but you’re vocal about the MSG in Chinese food… what should the takeaway be?

I guess I wasn't explicit enough, Koreans aren't vocal about MSG in Chinese food - we are vocal about MSG in our own food !!!

(But of course, only when it's added as factory-made "chemical" - if it's from dried anchovies and seaweed, that's natural, so of course that's totally OK, either in Korean, Chinese, or any other cuisine.)

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#175

This American Life did a great podcast on the origins of this myth; I strongly recommend listening to it. Here's the transcript: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/668/transcript TLDR: it started as a bet/prank and became an accepted truth thanks to racism and people being simple. EDIT: this article is literally based on the podcast. Just listen go it, it's a good one :)

You should listen to the whole thing — the story about it being a prank was itself a prank!

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#176
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they for different reasons? What is the reason Koreans think it's bad for health? As I haven't read about that. Given that in the west it was also dubbed "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" I would think some form of prejudice played a part.

> What is the reason Koreans think it's bad for health? Pretty much the same reason why Americans think it's bad for health. It has a scary-sounding name (it's also called "MSG" in Korea), it sounds like a "chemical", and you can find it in ingredient lists of all popular junk foods - most notably instant ramen, which is basically an MSG+salt solution masquerading as noodles. Give something in food an exotic name, an…

[deleted]

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#177
post #79
post #27

the trick to MSG is to double what naturally occurring rate. Chicken that tastes like nothing can taste wonderful with a tinest dash and it'd taste like the best damn chicken. doesn't work well with food already full of umami like parmesan cheese.. and don't keep adding if you're already adding food additives like stock from a can/carton. Those are usually already heavily "fortified" with msg by itself.

This is partly why chic-fil-a is so popular in the United States. https://www.chick-fil-a.com/menu-items/chick-fil-a-deluxe-sa... (expand the "Ingredients" sub-item and search for "monosodium glutamate") I say partly because we the consumers have been tricked into thinking fried chicken is somehow healthy because it has all of the buzz words associated with it ("organic", "free range")

Quite the opposite: Consumers are so aware that fried chicken is unhealthy that Kentucky Fried Chicken formally changed its name to just "KFC" so as to not explicitly reference the food item anymore.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the actual argument should be that if one cries wolf so many times it is hard to take it seriously when there really is a wolf. Hence people don't take it seriously... Racism fatigue. Kinda like quarantine fatigue when particular mitigations don't make scientific sense. Edit: take my own advice and change "you" to "one."

It's like crying wolf, except: there is indeed a wolf and you just don't care about the sheep.

A reminder of the HN guidelines and I'll assume in good faith you didn't mean me by "you."

--------

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#179
post #26

Dave Chang has a small scene in one of his Ugly Delicious (great show, by the way) episodes where he gets a group of non-Asian Americans, who claim to be MSG-allergic, to come and share their stories of MSG-related symptoms after eating at Chinese restaurants. He then hands out Doritos and American products that the participants claim they love and can eat all day. Hard to see where this is going... he says, all thes…

I wish people stopped invoking racism everywhere, when plain "being misinformed" explains things just fine. Millions of Koreans swear up and down that MSG is bad for health. Are we also being racist? (Against whom?)

Different groups of people can hold the same point of view due to different reasons.

Koreans hold it for non-racist reasons do not prove the rest hold it for the same reasons

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#180
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may've seen my comment before I edited in the second excerpt. We've pretty clear evidence of harm from certain doses of cyanide. We don't have it for MSG, despite a whole lot of trying.

Actually we do have a lower bound for the MSG dose that will negatively affect 50% of the population. But that dose is about six times higher than the normally-served dose. The fine article mentions that. Some people have a lower tolerance than "most people", for any given chemical, MSG included.

How did we get to 50%?
Post reply on HN