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The Internet Is for Porn

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Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#291

Post by didibus » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

I was wondering the other day, why haven't we already legalized sex work? But I think the answer is that most normal people might not care for it to be legal or not, but a very motivated minority really really cares for it to be illegal.

There's probably also the cultural aspect around it. Most people still feel pretty ackward with all things related to sex. Just talking about it is taboo. Most people feel more comfortable just not bringing the topic. Even with the amount of porn being consumed, you'd be hard pressed to have anyone talk about their porn consumption to anyone else, including their sexual partner.

It's not been very long since sex can be had safely either. For most of history, sex came with lots of risks, like pregnancy and diseases. In my opinion, it'll take a few more generations for safe sex practices, safer sex work environment like digital sex work, and all that to catch up and start changing people's attitudes around it. Not sure that SV investors can do anything about that.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#292

Post by bonoboTP » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #285

bonoboTP wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas in Europe and Asia nudity is completely accepted in many public areas, and sex work is tolerated, legal and is just another, albeit uncommon, thing people do for a living and nothing more This is way overemphasized on the Internet by people who don't have much experience with living in Europe. It's similar to Europeans imagining that in the US it's an everyday thing that people are dying left and right beca…

> Why is it always poorer Eastern European Polish seriously? I didn't even know that there are (popular) porn stars from my country, yet alone on the top of lists

My bad. I guess it's more Czechia and Hungary specifically. Due to various business reasons and historic opportunities of the unregulated market and chaos after the change of system in 1990 and the generally atheistic society, poverty and conventionally attractive women (and white, which was important for the rich first world market). Poland was/is perhaps too religious for this.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#293

Post by nicoburns » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:40 PM UTC

johncena33 wrote: post #199

bonoboTP wrote: post #108

"Everything in life is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." I think the debate is not really about porn, but people's sense of justice, cheating, deserving things or not etc. Some feel like porn gives unearned satisfaction to young men, a virtual substitute they don't have to work for. The bitter other side will say, no shit, I won't slave away to get screwed over, it's much more straightforward business to co…

> Others may feel camgirls are collecting undeserved money, they don't do actual noble valuable work, just cash in based on their genetics and immorality. As someone who is a supporter of legal sex work and pornography. The "cashing on genetics" part bothers me the most. I don't know how to process when good looking people can earn thousands of dollars almost doing nothing (particularly on digital platform like OnlyF…

It is definitely unfair, but is it any different to an intelligent person cashing in on their genetics? I have a very well paid job as a software engineer which comes relatively easily to me. As you say, lots of people have to work really hard just to make a living.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#294

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #277

Plenty has been written in this thread about the article's take on SV attitudes on sex workers. For the most part, I think the article is right. But there's another reason why tech orgs and banks don't want porn, which it completely ignores: the sheer quantity of bad actors around the industry. Chargebacks, disputes, hacking, spam, money laundering, content theft, stalking, child pornography, and so forth are all end…

While what you say about bad actors is true, I just don't buy your argument. SV prides itself in solving "hard problems" (whether that's actually true is another issue entirely), so are you honestly saying that the issue with high chargeback rates or illegal content is too difficult to solve? I mean, SV can create advanced electric cars, launch rockets into space, serve millions of queries a second, but porn spam is too difficult?

I think the moralistic argument makes much more sense. Most of the VC types who want to "make it big" in SV do it not just for the money, but also for the approval of their peers and the praise of their Ivy-league brethren ("Wow, look how smart he is, he was one of the earliest investors in Facebook!") Making it big in porn just wouldn't have the same cachet, and would be a potential minefield of social opprobrium.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#295

Post by bsanr2 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #252

memling wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facial tattoos are a traditional practice for many ethnic groups. Many modern practitioners feel that they're reclaiming a practice that was persecuted under American Puritanism. I'm curious about this: is there any record of actual Puritans persecuting someone explicitly for having a facial tattoo? (It is true, of course, that Puritans in England and the colonies did not have a modern perspective about the separat…

> I'm curious about this: is there any record of actual Puritans persecuting someone explicitly for having a facial tattoo? Like “fundamentalism”, “Puritanism” is probably more commonly (outside of specific technical discussions of sectarian history or theology) used in a sense which does not refer specifically to the theological group the term technically denotes but a broader (but overlapping, not a superset) group…

Correct, as to my intent (I probably should not have capitalized the P). The taboo nature of facial tattoos is simply the evolution of a revulsion towards tattoos in general among "polite" American society. Until very recently, visible tattoos (and before that, tattoos of any kind) could be disqualifying for public-facing positions.

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#296

Post by saagarjha » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

lumberjack wrote: post #71

fullshark wrote: post #44

This guy seems to be operating on the assumption that MEN are to blame for pornography's status as a social pariah. As if mothers everywhere would be proud of their daughters producing pornography on Onlyfans if only their husbands weren't in their ear shaming them.

The author is trying to hijack contemporary moral outrage against legitimate cases of sexism to try to legitimize a pimp business.

And you’re trying to hijack moral outrage against these people by calling it a pimp business, are you not?

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#297

Post by bonoboTP » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

gbrown wrote: post #283

tester756 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take a few times. It's common, at least in my bubble.

I don't doubt that, but it definitely seems "fringe", while OP was presenting this as the general zeitgeist.

Are you sure it's not you who is in a bubble? Maybe in your circles it's just about the safety of the sex workers from abuse and trafficking, otherwise it's "yay, you go girl! $muscle_emoji" and "yay you go guy, for watching porn and satisfying your need for intimacy through onlyfans" (erm... wait...)

But there's lot of sneering like this https://9gag.com/gag/arVYxm5 spreading on social media, which is essentially that girls on onlyfans are going for the easy money instead of more "decent" work and career path. I know it's just a meme, I'm not defending a silly image as truth, just as the illustration of the viewpoint. The idea that there is a who-deserves-what aspect.

And perhaps you think the anti-porn Christians simply tell boys not to jerk it because of an irreducible argument that "Jesus doesn't like that", but to me it's pretty clear that there is a deeper Christian pattern underlying it, namely suffering/effort giving rise to reward, and that it's immoral to sidestep that, Garden of Eden, Christ paying for sins by suffering on the cross etc. The protestant ideal of hard work etc. Do these ideas seem foreign to you?

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#298

Post by hshshs2 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

kryogen1c wrote: post #269

burntoutfire wrote: post #43

> [About SV] An observer might note that all of these companies are dominated by men, in an industry dominated by men, tightly interwoven with a venture capital industry that is super-dominated by men. So it’s curious why none of these men have shown any interest in addressing the massive and lucrative sex work industry that overwhelmingly serves, well, men; until you consider who pays the real costs of that industry…

> It's such a primitive and toxic line of thinking its especially a nonsense argument when you note that porn is one of the few industries with a huge pay gap - and in favor of women. its so significant that top tier actresses pay scale has a floor that is higher than the ceiling of the equivalent male talent.

sure but the actors aren’t making the most money, the men running the companies are

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#299

Post by saagarjha » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #183

cblconfederate wrote: post #148

Comments in here just corroborate the writer's argument about SV's prudish culture, that confuses sex with morals,power, politics etc. It shouldn't be debateable in 2020 that sexual expression should be free. Anyway, pornhub and other sites seem to be going the onlyfans direction which will only increase competition and make things better for these entertainers. Interesting interview by one of the top earners: https:…

Why shouldn't it be debatable? Porn and "free sexual expression" have a lot of damage they do to individuals and society as a whole also. I don't even need to list the examples because everyone already knows them. The rise of dangerous choking accidents during sex is a direct result of the popularization of that act through pornography. BDSM and the socially acceptable connection of sexual pleasure with real physical…

> The rise of dangerous choking accidents during sex is a direct result of the popularization of that act through pornography.

How much of this is an actual problem, as opposed to the handful of cases that end up getting much more coverage than any other kind of death?

Re: The Internet Is for Porn

#300

Post by bawolff » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:52 PM UTC

chaosharmonic wrote: post #268

k__ wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The debates in the US sound ridiculous to me. It's like the US is a first world country full of people from a few centuries ago.

I mean. That statement tracks pretty well if you look at our government, where the elderly are represented in elected offices at double or even triple their actual share of the population. According to the 2010 census Americans over 65 make up under 15% of... well, Americans[0], but currently occupy 147 seats in the House (out of a possible 435) and 48 in the Senate (out of 100), along with executive branches in 15 s…

I'd note that its not like these are recent events in canada. Trudeau (the current Prime minister's dad) introduced the bill that semi-legalized abortion (under restricted circumstances) and introduced some gun control, 52 years ago. (Among other things like legalizing homosexuality and contraceptives). Then 20 years later the remaining restrictions on abortion were ruled unconstitutional.

All these senior citizen lawmakers in the usa were pretty young when all this went down, so i dont think age is an explaining factor for the differences.

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