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Back to the '70s with Serverless

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Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#281

Post by jacquesm »

qz2 wrote: post #264
jacquesm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can strategically answer any question. Good luck with that. We do exactly that for a living here, we're essentially 5 people who are all CTO grade and have run our own companies. If you can fool us for a whole day you've deserved your investment, but I highly doubt anybody ever got away with that.

There’s at least two layers of indirection and yes I probably could fool you or just blatantly lie.

Good for you, it's been tried but so far without success. Maybe you're the exception but I highly doubt that. Arrogance on my part, for sure, but the record on my end speaks for itself (170+ companies looked at to date) and you are an AC.

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#282

Post by qz2 »

jacquesm wrote: post #281
qz2 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s at least two layers of indirection and yes I probably could fool you or just blatantly lie.

Good for you, it's been tried but so far without success. Maybe you're the exception but I highly doubt that. Arrogance on my part, for sure, but the record on my end speaks for itself (170+ companies looked at to date) and you are an AC.

My house was paid for by someone who was that arrogant :)

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#283

Post by nojvek »

1337shadow wrote: post #180
thethethethe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it’s true but it requires a lot more config. The job I mentioned in my comment involved thousands of lines of anisble to perform operations you wouldn’t even need to consider/could perform in a few clicks when using a serverless platform. Don’t get me wrong—serverless platforms are not a ci-cd silver bullet. Many organizations build pipelines on top of serverless deployment apis, but it certainly does take care…

You're supposed to encapsulate those in reusable roles, see an example methodology here: https://yourlabs.org/posts/2020-02-08-bigsudo-extreme-devops... And since we have containers it's become really much easier actually ... Deploy a Traefik container which will watch dockerd socket and self-configure HTTPS and all when your other script starts container. Really, it's much easier than back in the days: https://githu…

Wasn’t the original post complaining about avoiding a gazillion lines of config in the first place ?

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#284

Post by jacquesm »

qz2 wrote: post #282
jacquesm wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you, it's been tried but so far without success. Maybe you're the exception but I highly doubt that. Arrogance on my part, for sure, but the record on my end speaks for itself (170+ companies looked at to date) and you are an AC.

My house was paid for by someone who was that arrogant :)

Oh, so you're a fraudster. No wonder you keep your account anonymous here. Well, good for you. I prefer to go the long way though.

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#285

Post by grishka »

memetherapy wrote: post #145

One thing that surprised me as a latecomer to software development coming from a visual arts background is how much choice of technology and working practices are purely fashion driven. The thing about fashion is that the way if develops is largely arbitrary. Changes in fashion resemble a drunken walk through possible design space with the drunkard receiving regular shoves from "influencers" who are usually trying to…

As a software developer since my early days, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's honestly ridiculous to see how people invent "revolutionary new ways" of doing the exact same thing that could be done in a dozen ways already. And they invent those by piling more and more unnecessary complexity on top of existing technology stacks.

Electron is a revolutionary new way of making desktop apps. Except they look like they're something else and take up all the RAM you have and ask for more. But nah, you don't understand, it's the future, native desktop apps are dead.

Kotlin is a revolutionary new JVM language that will solve all the problems you had with Java... Except I haven't had any. Java is simple and predictable. Kotlin is not. To me, Kotlin feels like an abstraction layer that gets in the way. But people will be defending it relentlessly because that's what Google says is The Future™ for Android development.

Web development... That's just nasty. "Revolutions" happen every day, so now your news article takes 5 seconds to load on a 100-megabit connection just because someone absolutely had to make it a react app instead of a server-rendered page with just text and maybe some pictures.

This overall trend of abstracting the platform (the operating system, the web browser) away is abysmal. It does no good. And lowering the barrier to entry to programming? Honestly, I'd rather prefer it to remain high. Programming is meant to be an engineering job, not the kind where you throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks and just assume that browsers and operating systems are made of unicorn jizz.

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#286

Post by qz2 »

jacquesm wrote: post #284
qz2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My house was paid for by someone who was that arrogant :)

Oh, so you're a fraudster. No wonder you keep your account anonymous here. Well, good for you. I prefer to go the long way though.

Absolutely not. I was merely an engineer telling truth to the management staff. This taught me a rather large lesson that it’s more about the person’s integrity passing the facts on than the convenience of the facts or the reality of the facts themselves.

I hold myself to a far higher standard than my former employers.

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#287

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

I think people miss that there isn’t a single solution that is a perfect for everyone. As your business grows there is a point where co-location makes sense, there is a point where cloud makes sense, and there is a point where maintaining your own datacenter makes sense. Over time you will make multiple transitions because the economics of the moment make it favorable.

Spending time in cloud does break people of bad habits, it’s worth spending some time in a cloud environment, but eventually you get back to the point where it’s cheaper to build your own infrastructure then to rent someone else’s.

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#288

Post by alpaca128 »

bob1029 wrote: post #263
alpaca128 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right on the money with people having gotten used to it. Once I truly started harnessing the power of Vim combined with shell scripts and terminal multiplexers, my patience for many other programs and tasks decreased even further. We have the computing power to run complex physical simulations or AI training sequences on a normal home computer, but for some reason use programs that take 100 times longe…

Once I get our current product in a good spot WRT maintainability and sales pipeline, I am planning to spend some time (~6 months) looking at developing ultra-low latency developer tooling. I feel like I can deliver these experiences through a browser using some clever tricks. Going through my current project has really worn me out with regard to tolerating UX slowdowns in developer tools. I am getting so incredibly…

> mouse/keyboard inputs show on display in That's not possible, at least if you measure the full time from actuating the key to the screen showing the updated content. The record holder in that regard is still the Apple II with 30ms[0].

But I agree, modern software should react much faster. It's kind of weird how on one hand we have hardware that can run VR with 120Hz and extremely low input latency, and at the same time some programs that only need to display and change a couple bytes in a text file need 4 seconds to even start.

[0]: https://danluu.com/input-lag/

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#289

Post by FpUser »

GrumpyYoungMan wrote: post #279
FpUser wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always have up to date standby for a fraction of money they spend on cloud. In the last 10 years or so I do not remember RAM failing in an unpredictable ways. When/if my SSD fails It'll take me a whole 10 minutes ordering another one from amazon. Oh and I always have spares lying around. My backups are automated. Anyways nice job advertising cloud and trying to scare people into using it. You happy with it - good f…

> " ...I do not remember RAM failing in an unpredictable ways. " I'm about halfway through my career and I have seen something like that happen exactly once; the erratic behavior of the machine had my team scratching our heads for a fair bit until we ran memtest86 on it after running out of ideas. So I would say that it's not impossible, just extraordinarily unlikely. The rest of your post I entirely agree with.

Things did happen with my stuff as well. I had graphics card semi failed in an unpredictable way so I just replaced it. I also had one system randomly crashing because thermal paste dried up on one ancient CPU. It is just a little annoyance that happens extremely rarely. Anything is possible and I'll deal with it when/if. Nothing world shattering here. Cloud can and does fail as well. The list of reported outages affecting large chunks of customer beats my accidental cases with the healthy margin.

Re: Back to the '70s with Serverless

#290

Post by bob1029 »

alpaca128 wrote: post #288
bob1029 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I get our current product in a good spot WRT maintainability and sales pipeline, I am planning to spend some time (~6 months) looking at developing ultra-low latency developer tooling. I feel like I can deliver these experiences through a browser using some clever tricks. Going through my current project has really worn me out with regard to tolerating UX slowdowns in developer tools. I am getting so incredibly…

> mouse/keyboard inputs show on display in That's not possible, at least if you measure the full time from actuating the key to the screen showing the updated content. The record holder in that regard is still the Apple II with 30ms[0]. But I agree, modern software should react much faster. It's kind of weird how on one hand we have hardware that can run VR with 120Hz and extremely low input latency, and at the same…

I am referring mostly to the latency that I do have control over in software. I.e. time between user input event available for processing and view state response to user.
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