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The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

tfl.gov.uk

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Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#11

Post by xadhominemx »

danpalmer wrote: post #8
commonturtle wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter these days. Google Maps just works, I've driven in London dozens of times with absolutely no issues. There is zero reason to continue to have such a complicated test for taxi drivers when satnavs are so effective, all it does is raise costs for riders and make it harder for people to become drivers.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the r…

Waze does a much better job of accounting for traffic than cabbies. It's true that sometimes cabbies will drop you off at a better door - is that worth 30 pounds?

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#12

Post by raspyberr »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #9
danpalmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the r…

Someone must have done a cabbie vs. satnav challenge surely? Does Google definitely not account for future events? If I plan a journey for London Marathon day, say, does it not even warn me of delays? Does it take in warnings of engineering works (eg for rail travel)?

They have. Just search on YouTube. The ones I could quickly find were about 10 years old unfortunately and not exactly extensive experiments.

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#13

Post by topicseed »

What is amazing with black cabs in London is their ability to find ways other than the normal one to get you where you need to be. This comes with experience from times where Google Maps wasn't so ubiquitous, and that insane Knowledge test.

However, everything else I dislike with black cabs. I mostly use Uber and when the main route is problematic, the driver focuses on his phone more than on the road, and that's alright. At least they are polite and don't try to rip me off like too many black cabs tried to.

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#14

Post by danpalmer »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #9
danpalmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the r…

Someone must have done a cabbie vs. satnav challenge surely? Does Google definitely not account for future events? If I plan a journey for London Marathon day, say, does it not even warn me of delays? Does it take in warnings of engineering works (eg for rail travel)?

I wouldn't be surprised if Google accounts for the London Marathon. Does it account for the opening night of a new show in the West End? I highly doubt it.

I don't think Google maintain their own data for rail travel, and the data sources aren't that good, so I doubt they'll be accounting for engineering works unless either they are scheduled far in advance or they've been happening for a while.

In my experience it takes time equivalent to a bunch of people having a crap journey and Google collecting that data for Google's instructions to change, they're not pre-emptive based on expert knowledge, they're reactive based on collected data.

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#15

Post by danpalmer »

xadhominemx wrote: post #11
danpalmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the r…

Waze does a much better job of accounting for traffic than cabbies. It's true that sometimes cabbies will drop you off at a better door - is that worth 30 pounds?

It's not worth that to me no, but saying that Waze/Google are better than a human is a different thing and I doubt that's the case. I think like many problems, doing this well generalises to Artificial General Intelligence.

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#16

Post by notatoad »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #9
danpalmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the r…

Someone must have done a cabbie vs. satnav challenge surely? Does Google definitely not account for future events? If I plan a journey for London Marathon day, say, does it not even warn me of delays? Does it take in warnings of engineering works (eg for rail travel)?

>someone must have done a cabbie vs satnav challenge

I'd argue it's been happening on a fairly large scale for the last few years. That Uber is competitive is a good sign that the Knowledge isn't nearly as much of an advantage as the cabbies would have you believe, but nor has it been completely eclipsed by tech

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#18

Post by edoceo »

woleium wrote: post #10
LatteLazy wrote: post #2

It's worth nothing that London is a huge mess of random streets. There is no grid pattern here, its still using the medieval street patterns, plus a whole set of one way routes and no stopping areas. That's why this is so complex. Roads are also all named, sometimes confusingly. "One poultry" is a road, not a building, you'll need a number to go with that to get to a building. "Crutched Friars" is a street. "Blackfri…

We nearly got a grid after the great fire in 1666. Sir Christopher Wren had a plan[1]. In any case, the fire caused a major redesign, so not quite medieval, but not far off. [1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/magazine-3...

No AMP!!

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35418272

Re: The Knowledge of London for cab drivers

#20

Post by jimnotgym »

xadhominemx wrote: post #11
danpalmer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the r…

Waze does a much better job of accounting for traffic than cabbies. It's true that sometimes cabbies will drop you off at a better door - is that worth 30 pounds?

I don't think that is necessarily true. I often commute 40 miles on relatively quiet roads, and then at the end of that another 10 miles on one of the busiest roads in the country. When I leave home Google and Waze both underestimate the delay caused by the fact that the busy road is gridlocked by the time I get there. I am therefore better than Google and Waze at calculating journey time.
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