Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#111

Post by technofiend » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:37 AM UTC

miles wrote: post #38

technofiend wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. You can meet in the middle and run transcript on pro which disables most of the worst new features.

> LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. LTSC can be purchased legally by anyone for around $300: https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html

Nice. That cuts it in half from what I'd expect to pay.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#112

Post by indigo945 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:42 AM UTC

LexGray wrote: post #106

game_the0ry wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but to be clear - I am not saying that apple software and products are free from problems. Far from it - butterfly keyboard, for example. I am just saying Apple, for me, has the most reliable and consistent experience. And I have tried most options: - windows, linux, and macos for my personal and work machines - android, ios, and even windows phone (remember that?) So far, may experience has been the opp…

Apple is very much a consumer level company. I’ve seen reviews quality wise that they are average with hardware failure rates. They do try... for instance I’ve heard the reason they always charge more for RAM is labor costs from running additional tests to fail chips other companies ship.

Apple may be a consumer level company, but then, business level hardware has ceased to exist anyway. Thinkpads are not what they used to be in terms of reliability.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#113

Post by jiggawatts » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:43 AM UTC

kabdib wrote: post #20

causality0 wrote: post #4

I feel like Windows Update didn't used to be such a shitshow. Was I just not paying close enough attention a decade ago?

I help run a service that uses hundreds of Windows boxes, and at any one time two or three of them always seem to have a borked windows update state. Recovery is utter fucking voodoo, and it's usually better to flatten a machine than attempt to repair things. A while back I installed a couple racks of shiny, new, absolutely identical servers (except for MAC addresses) with factory-imaged operating systems, and had tw…

My favourite Windows bug is the Start Menu search function.

Install Windows Server 2016 or 2019 in any manner you choose: Blank VM with ISO image, new Azure VM from Microsoft template, whatever.

Try using the Start Menu.

Nothing will work.

The search upon typing will not show all items.

If you click on a search result, it won't launch.

Type "SQL" to try and match "Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio" and be shocked to find that it doesn't. But it matches on "Management"! It's not that it didn't index it, it's just that it couldn't be bothered fully indexing it... or something.

Type "Internet" and you won't see Internet Options. Sometimes it won't show up even if you've typed "Internet Opt". You have to complete the search to "Internet Options", character-for-character to reveal that it exists.

Etc...

It blows my mind that this could be fucked up, not just once, but for every single Windows release since Vista, in similar but different ways.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#114

Post by segfaultbuserr » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:45 AM UTC

Roritharr wrote: post #93

I have a very strange SSD related bug at the moment on that Windows version too: I've downloaded my Google Takeout Backup, so 74 4GB sized zips. After I was done extracting them and storing them on Dropbox, I tried to delete the zip files, but my machine froze without so much of a bluescreen. After a hard reboot, I could reproduce the behavior. I can still change the focus of apps, but everything that requires the ss…

SATA Link Power Management (LPM) and Device-Initiated Power Management (DIPM) could also be the culprit here with similar symptoms - after using the computer for a while, the SSD will stop responding to I/O activities, leaving you a half-dead system. Existing programs like a browser, taskbar or window manager will still work for a while, until they need I/O too, eventually everything will be progressively dead.

It should be a persistent problem that shows up immediately after you've just installed an incompatible SSD, and it should only affect those who installed Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver. So, if it only appears after a system upgrade, it should not be the problem here. But apparently it's still a possible cause.

So, just in case, the solution follows:

First, try disabling HIPM and DIPM in Windows "Power Options", you can use this tutorial: https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/177819-ahci-link-power...

Also, if you are using the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver, LPM and DIPM can be disabled by making the following registry changes. After making the changes, reboot the system and test.

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Parameters\Port0]
    "LPM"=dword:00000000
    "LPMDSTATE"=dword:00000000
    "DIPM"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Parameters\Port1]
    "LPM"=dword:00000000
    "LPMDSTATE"=dword:00000000
    "DIPM"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Parameters\Port2]
    "LPM"=dword:00000000
    "LPMDSTATE"=dword:00000000
    "DIPM"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Parameters\Port3]
    "LPM"=dword:00000000
    "LPMDSTATE"=dword:00000000
    "DIPM"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Parameters\Port4]
    "LPM"=dword:00000000
    "LPMDSTATE"=dword:00000000
    "DIPM"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\iaStor\Parameters\Port5]
    "LPM"=dword:00000000
    "LPMDSTATE"=dword:00000000
    "DIPM"=dword:00000000

Note:

1. It disables LPM and DIPM blindly for Port0, Port1, Port2, Port3, Port4, and Port5. It may miss your SSD if you have more ports (unlikely), and if you know the location of your SSD, one entry is enough.

2. I only tested it many years ago on an old version of iaStor, perhaps a new upgrade has made these register keys ineffective. Who knows.

3. Previously, uninstalling iaStor and using the built-in AHCI driver in Windows could be a workaround. But I'm not sure whether it's still a solution.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#115

Post by anoncow » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:45 AM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #9

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it is automated nowadays (I bet the MBA educated executive at MS who was responsible for that got PHAT bonus, at the expense of Windows customers and laid off testing staff, of course). Seems like it happened in 2015, which is why it seems that windows updates hav…

A counterpoint. All recent Mac OS versions have been a steaming pile for the first few releases, Catalina and Big Sur included.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#116

Post by weego » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:47 AM UTC

LexGray wrote: post #106

game_the0ry wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but to be clear - I am not saying that apple software and products are free from problems. Far from it - butterfly keyboard, for example. I am just saying Apple, for me, has the most reliable and consistent experience. And I have tried most options: - windows, linux, and macos for my personal and work machines - android, ios, and even windows phone (remember that?) So far, may experience has been the opp…

Apple is very much a consumer level company. I’ve seen reviews quality wise that they are average with hardware failure rates. They do try... for instance I’ve heard the reason they always charge more for RAM is labor costs from running additional tests to fail chips other companies ship.

Pretty much the entire music industry would disagree with you on apple being consumer level

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#117

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:52 AM UTC

LexGray wrote: post #106

game_the0ry wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but to be clear - I am not saying that apple software and products are free from problems. Far from it - butterfly keyboard, for example. I am just saying Apple, for me, has the most reliable and consistent experience. And I have tried most options: - windows, linux, and macos for my personal and work machines - android, ios, and even windows phone (remember that?) So far, may experience has been the opp…

Apple is very much a consumer level company. I’ve seen reviews quality wise that they are average with hardware failure rates. They do try... for instance I’ve heard the reason they always charge more for RAM is labor costs from running additional tests to fail chips other companies ship.

>I’ve heard the reason they always charge more for RAM is labor costs from running additional tests to fail chips other companies ship.

Which is false. Apple uses the same off the shelf DRAM chips from established manufacturers found in any PC/Phone/Laptop.

Unlike Flash storage, there is really not really bad performing DRAM per-se, just defective, And apple is no guarantee of free from defects with RAM fault in MACs being as common as in the rest of the PC industry.

The extra price is just the Apple tax.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#118

Post by FriendlyNormie » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 8:52 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #19

game_the0ry wrote: post #9

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it is automated nowadays (I bet the MBA educated executive at MS who was responsible for that got PHAT bonus, at the expense of Windows customers and laid off testing staff, of course). Seems like it happened in 2015, which is why it seems that windows updates hav…

I know we're basically comparing anecdotes, but I've been surprised at how much more I've come to trust my windows workstation than my Mac in the past few years. I can't actually remember the last time my Windows workstation crashed outright (if ever?) but my Mac locks up at least 2-3 times per week. I also have to be extremely careful to avoid high memory pressure under Big Sur now, otherwise Finder spirals into a r…

No post body was provided.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#119

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:00 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #68

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, heck yes. Can I count the ways? - The Start Menu shows "suggested apps" by default - On first install/boot, the Start Menu is preloaded with about 10 sponsored apps, and many of them install automatically even if you don't click them. - These sponsored apps have a tendency to reinstall themselves _even after you just uninstalled them_ if you haven't rebooted your computer at least once or twice after first boot u…

Thanks! I finally have the name for the wretched hive of scum and villainy that spews forth those horrendous ads. > Taboola is the world’s largest discovery platform. Through our exclusive partnerships with many of the world’s top publishers, we serve 360 billion content recommendations to over one billion people across the web each month. You have probably seen our feed serving recommendations on sites like Bild, Bl…

>How do the people that work in these places sleep at night?

Like Donald Draper said: "On a bed made of money!"

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#120

Post by dEnigma » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

runjake wrote: post #29

ashleyn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads everywhere, hundreds of services that do God-knows-what, fresh installs that break as soon as the updater runs for the first time. I'm really not impressed and I try to use it as little as possible. Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's va…

Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? I often hear this, but I've never seen an ad (except MSFT's own ads getting to to try its new Edge browser.)

Some ads take the form of tiles in your start menu. These are there right after installation if I'm not mistaken, but you can easily remove them. Then there are prompts to "finish setting up Windows" which take you to a screen that offers, among other things, a Microsoft Office trial. Apparently there are also adds in Windows Explorer, but I'm not 100% sure I've ever seen them.