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Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

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Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#91

Post by userbinator »

technofiend wrote: post #24
apfsx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enterprise version (LTSC) hasn't had a feature update since November of 2018. Only security updates.

LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. You can meet in the middle and run transcript on pro which disables most of the worst new features.

...and if you pirate, you might as well go the whole hog and get the Server edition, which could now be considered to be the closest you can get to a non-hostile, classic Windows experience.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#92

Post by withinboredom »

userbinator wrote: post #57

I'd be very curious to see a deep root-cause-analysis of this, especially because it seems to be SSD-specific and in the "detect if the drive is an SSD and do something slightly different" way, which IMHO is not good behaviour in general as it is leaking the abstraction. I wonder if a VM simulating a virtual SSD hosted on a machine with a regular HDD would be able to reproduce this bug, but then again, recent Windows…

> I wonder if a VM simulating a virtual SSD hosted on a machine with a regular HDD would be able to reproduce this bug, but then again, recent Windows versions seem to be doing some detection of whether they are running in a VM (and likely altering behaviour due to this too)... what a mess.

In that case, running Hyper-v might be a good thing. (Hyper-v is a type 1 hypervisor, meaning your logged in session is running in a vm with dedicated input/video)

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#93

Post by Roritharr »

I have a very strange SSD related bug at the moment on that Windows version too:

I've downloaded my Google Takeout Backup, so 74 4GB sized zips. After I was done extracting them and storing them on Dropbox, I tried to delete the zip files, but my machine froze without so much of a bluescreen. After a hard reboot, I could reproduce the behavior. I can still change the focus of apps, but everything that requires the ssd to do anything is waiting for i/o until the system freezes completely.

Unplugging the notebook seems to help, sometimes, but I can't make this work coherently at the moment.

Until this post I thought my SSD (Samsung Evo 970 Plus) was faulty, despite working perfectly for everything else.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#94

Post by userbinator »

sfgweilr4f wrote: post #85
EvanAnderson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 was peak desktop Windows. Server 2012 R2 was the peak on the server side. Everything after has been downhill.

Why'd they add "R2" to the end?

It's equivalent to Windows 8.1. I guess they didn't want to call it Server 2013 instead.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#95

Post by bengalister »

TedShiller wrote: post #61
reitzensteinm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to run memcheck on the machine. Windows is terrible in many ways, but having regular blue screens is not at all normal.

For me, OS stability, in decreasing order, has always been: 1. Linux 2. MacOS 10. Windows

Hard to say but for me I would say: 1. Windows 2. MacOS 3. Linux

I had more crashes on Linux than any other, all related to the Gpu driver (intel iGpu), and it really depends on the kernel version but newer not necessarily means better. In a VM with i3, it never crashed.

But regarding hardware support except for the Gpu, I had better experience with Linux than Windows on the same machine. On Windows my mouse is stuttering when connected on my TB3 hub, Wifi connectivity is much more unstable and strangely my battery consumption is higher (5-6 h on Windows, 6-7h on Linux)... But the issue on Linux is the lack of proprietary software to manage these device (talking about my Canon printer and scanner).

As for Mac (MBPro 2015 early) I had quite some issues with Bose QC35 II bluetooth connection. I have to reboot sometimes. And one issue with Mac I noticed is compared to Windows, is less support for corporate software. For instance, for my AWS remote certification exam, I could not connect with my Mac.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#96

Post by eecc »

game_the0ry wrote: post #9

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it is automated nowadays (I bet the MBA educated executive at MS who was responsible for that got PHAT bonus, at the expense of Windows customers and laid off testing staff, of course). Seems like it happened in 2015, which is why it seems that windows updates hav…

Well, to be honest I much prefer - and trust - fully automated test pipelines to manuality. It affords more frequent and thorough verification of the final artifacts.

The problem comes when the automation is only partial because added at a later stage, and the existing software does not lend itself to testing.

The risk there is that some short-sighted line manager will go “YOLO, I have a deadline” and skip the tests rather than flag the problem and dedicate budget and effort to redesign the existing for testability.

That’s where guidance and oversight are key, and more often than not, sorely lacking.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#97

Post by Roritharr »

taviso wrote: post #54
k_sze wrote: post #16

Has Microsoft acknowledged the problem yet? It's still not listed as a known issue on the update page: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4592438/windows-10-...

That doesn't mean anything, I ran into a bug after 2004 that meant DPAPI protected secrets would be randomly corrupted. It was an incredibly frustrating bug that cost me a bunch of data. After a few months without progress, I ended up debugging the problem myself and mailing them an analysis. It's still not fixed, and not on that known issues page. I wrote a twitter thread about it here: https://twitter.com/taviso/st…

I really enjoy reading abour your findings, thanks for sharing!

I would love to see a how-to for the way you debug these things with IDA, as otherwise I consider myself good at debugging, but have never even tried to peak under the hood of Windows.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#98

Post by noja »

Roritharr wrote: post #93

I have a very strange SSD related bug at the moment on that Windows version too: I've downloaded my Google Takeout Backup, so 74 4GB sized zips. After I was done extracting them and storing them on Dropbox, I tried to delete the zip files, but my machine froze without so much of a bluescreen. After a hard reboot, I could reproduce the behavior. I can still change the focus of apps, but everything that requires the ss…

Sounds like an anti-virus problem. What happens if you delete it from the command prompt or powershell?

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#99

Post by hobos_delight »

userbinator wrote: post #89
R0b0t1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have to use Windows I install server. It is missing all of this. But lack of WHQL drivers means it usually won't run on portables.

It tells you a lot when all of the few Microsoft employees I've met run the server edition of Windows (in this case 2016) on their development machines; these are people who basically have completely legal access to use any of Microsoft's OSs, and they don't pick Win10. The one who I asked about it said it was faster to boot, more responsive, and "less distracting" (probably an euphemism.)

I’m a Microsoft employee and I run Linux (with a win10 VM for those times I absolutely need it).
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