Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#51

Post by R0b0t1 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

leonidasv wrote: post #47

Dylan16807 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most, but not all installs, the start menu pre-installs game ads, explorer advertises for onedrive, and the lock screen advertises things on top of the pretty pictures.

What drives me nuts is that those ads are also present in the "Pro" edition as well. I could understand MSFT pushing games into start menu for Home users, but doing so for Pro licences is outrageous.

If I have to use Windows I install server. It is missing all of this. But lack of WHQL drivers means it usually won't run on portables.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#52

Post by ycui1986 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

Windows's quality has been downhill quite a lot. For the past more than a year, I struggle with intermittent touchpad scroll failure on multiple laptops (including surface pro, thinkpad, etc). Of course, the only support you can get from searching the web is to update the driver. In this case, I don't think driver is the problem, the windows multi-touch and precision touchpad component has internal bug, the cause scrolling, either touchpad or touchscreen, to loss response every a few minuets for 15s-ish period. Super annoying when you browse web without a mouse. I don't see any solution in the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, I cannot just dump all my windows PC and switch to either mac or linux, because I stuck with a few CAD software that only runs on windows.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#53

Post by craftinator » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 4:58 AM UTC

ashleyn wrote: post #21

game_the0ry wrote: post #9

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it is automated nowadays (I bet the MBA educated executive at MS who was responsible for that got PHAT bonus, at the expense of Windows customers and laid off testing staff, of course). Seems like it happened in 2015, which is why it seems that windows updates hav…

I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads everywhere, hundreds of services that do God-knows-what, fresh installs that break as soon as the updater runs for the first time. I'm really not impressed and I try to use it as little as possible. Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's va…

This perfectly sums up my views, being a Linux only user since 2013. Windows used to be so... Less awful. It's like all the people who use it have been slowly trained to accept more and more anti-user features.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#54

Post by taviso » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:03 AM UTC

k_sze wrote: post #16

Has Microsoft acknowledged the problem yet? It's still not listed as a known issue on the update page: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4592438/windows-10-...

That doesn't mean anything, I ran into a bug after 2004 that meant DPAPI protected secrets would be randomly corrupted. It was an incredibly frustrating bug that cost me a bunch of data.

After a few months without progress, I ended up debugging the problem myself and mailing them an analysis.

It's still not fixed, and not on that known issues page. I wrote a twitter thread about it here:

https://twitter.com/taviso/status/1310619801606184960

There is an office kb article about it, because it turned out it also broke Outlook.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/outlook-and-other...

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#55

Post by Razengan » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:04 AM UTC

If this was macOS this post would be at least a 10x the upvotes in 0.1 the time, full of testimonials from people about to lay their last Mac in a grave.

But we’re too desensitized to news about shit like this happening in Windows. Why?

I just walked past an ATM with a blue screen of death. Business as usual.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#56

Post by craftinator » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:06 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #40

kabdib wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I help run a service that uses hundreds of Windows boxes, and at any one time two or three of them always seem to have a borked windows update state. Recovery is utter fucking voodoo, and it's usually better to flatten a machine than attempt to repair things. A while back I installed a couple racks of shiny, new, absolutely identical servers (except for MAC addresses) with factory-imaged operating systems, and had tw…

>How do you even do that? flaky hardware?

Lolz yeah right. It's the hardware's fault that windows install is non deterministic.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#57

Post by userbinator » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:10 AM UTC

I'd be very curious to see a deep root-cause-analysis of this, especially because it seems to be SSD-specific and in the "detect if the drive is an SSD and do something slightly different" way, which IMHO is not good behaviour in general as it is leaking the abstraction.

I wonder if a VM simulating a virtual SSD hosted on a machine with a regular HDD would be able to reproduce this bug, but then again, recent Windows versions seem to be doing some detection of whether they are running in a VM (and likely altering behaviour due to this too)... what a mess.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#58

Post by edoceo » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:16 AM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #53

ashleyn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads everywhere, hundreds of services that do God-knows-what, fresh installs that break as soon as the updater runs for the first time. I'm really not impressed and I try to use it as little as possible. Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's va…

This perfectly sums up my views, being a Linux only user since 2013. Windows used to be so... Less awful. It's like all the people who use it have been slowly trained to accept more and more anti-user features.

All down hill after Windows 2000

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#59

Post by edoceo » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:20 AM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #56

gruez wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How do you even do that? flaky hardware?

Lolz yeah right. It's the hardware's fault that windows install is non deterministic.

Well, flakey RAM causes loads of intermittent issues.

Re: Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with KB4592438 installed

#60

Post by userbinator » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 5:22 AM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #9

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it is automated nowadays (I bet the MBA educated executive at MS who was responsible for that got PHAT bonus, at the expense of Windows customers and laid off testing staff, of course). Seems like it happened in 2015, which is why it seems that windows updates hav…

I agree that any sort of data loss is completely unacceptable, especially given the amount of force with which MS has been pushing automatic updates and making it difficult to completely disable.

The previous huge fuckup that caused data loss is still a fresh memory to me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18189139