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London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

bloomberg.com

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Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#341

Post by iamben »

hummusman wrote: post #266
MaulingMonkey wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the liberal northwest, where we at least have a token amount of public transport, I see the bus signs alternating between their usual route number + description and "masks required". Haven't been on one to verify use by ridership, or to see what the driver's reaction to noncompliant riders is. The higher staff-to-rider ratio might help? Outdoor mask use is limited (50%?) but at least quite sparse and distant…

I don’t know where either of the London-based commenters go shopping but all staff are legally required to wear masks at shops in the U.K.

Visit any of the major supermarket brands in London and I guarantee you'll see a handful of staff or security not or not properly wearing a mask.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#342

Post by addicted »

robocat wrote: post #225
etherealmachine wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out that US states aren't allowed to run a deficit, while countries are, so I mostly agree with this but this hamstrings states like Oregon who aren't allowed to provide relief for strict measures through debt. Also Oregonians would have to still contribute to the Federal government via taxes, essentially stealing more money from this plan.

Excuses. If the state really wants to do something, they can. It is just a question of the costs. NZ is not a state, but instead has a precarious relationship with the USA and other countries, which can ban-hammer us for things it really shouldn’t have any say in. A better example: “Since Canberra pointedly demanded an investigation into the origins and spread of the coronavirus, the number of Aussie businesses being…

There’s no way a US state could have done it, especially with Donald Trump at the helm.

The federal government certainly could have done a lot better. But frankly, even a federal government that didn’t do anything would have been better than the current one which was promoting snake oil, and not promoting wearing masks or social distancing but working actively against them.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#343

Post by addicted »

dehrmann wrote: post #167
lefrenchy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not even remotely comparable though. 1,000 cases a day and less than 1,000 total reported deaths. It puts Western nations to absolute shame.

That's not the point. My only point is their r0 has been above 1 since early November. They went from 100 news cases per day to 1000 in a month and a half. That isn't "succeed[ing] at containing this virus."

Im pretty sure the standard is not having the virus under control 100% of the time. If you do, it’s almost certainly because you have erred way too far on the cautious side.

The standard is keeping the virus well under control for the majority of the time, ans when you do have a flare up, bringing it back under control before it becomes too bad.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#344

Post by lumberingjack »

pjc50 wrote: post #311
jonplackett wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also in London and 100% agree. I’ve barely been to a shop in 8 months because of this. For some reason we can manage to prevent drunk agro people entering a club with the wrong shoes, but 8 months into a pandemic we can’t make people wear a bloody mask? It’s insane. The government are partly to blame for making rules so haphazardly that even someone like me who reads EVERYTHING and wants to do the right thing 100% of…

I've heard how to wear an aircraft oxygen mask a hundred times in my life but never a PSA on how to wear a COVID mask. One I hope never to do and the other I do every week at least.

This I have MOPP training and just flew though two airports I saw 0 people probably useing a mask.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#345

Post by jdhn »

asdff wrote: post #300
jdhn wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but this certainly doesn't bode well How doesn't it bode well? If you get one strain of covid, get over it, then catch another strain and your symptoms are much less than the first time due to your body having the proper defenses against covid, then that's your immune system working as intended.

It doesn't bode well that you can get it twice to begin with.

Is it impossible to get a cold twice in one season? If so, why is catching covid twice a bad thing, especially if the second time is a lot milder than the first time, even for people who experience mild symptoms the first time?

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#346

Post by Symbiote »

toast0 wrote: post #217
makomk wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd also have meant severing food supply chains (and probably also medical supply chains and a bunch of others). The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers. Ending that would make Brexit look like a walk in the park by comparison. Also, you've got to remember that the time period during which the UK would've had to do…

> The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers. I'm not familiar with freight in Europe, so please excuse the diversion. They drive freight vehicles onto the Eurotunnel Shuttle or on ferries? I'm guessing this isn't containerized freight, which would seem to make sense to transfer to freight rail (at least to cross the ch…

All of them (there is also plenty of containerized freight on ships).

With the very porous border, there is little lost time through checks -- it was easy to send the driver all the way from Germany to Manchester. I think from leaving the French motorway to driving onto the British one takes about an hour by lorry-on-train.

By ferry, it's little different than going from Germany to Denmark by ferry. They will glance at the passport as well as the ticket.

Boarding the train : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8r0kjJvvIY

(Cars go on a different train, enclosed and you stay in your car.)

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#347

Post by throwaheyy »

raarts wrote: post #229
stevesimmons wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your timing is out. Melbourne started their lockdown in winter. Everyone obeyed it. It was strongly enforced [1, 2]. They beat coronavirus. And now they can enjoy their summer. I live in London. At one point in the summer, our covid rates were lower than Melbourne's. But the UK's messaging was confused and contradictory ("eat out to help out", test and trace was shambolic, rules were not enforced). So no one is the l…

But numbers seem to be up again, this article is speaking of another lockdown: https://t.co/2S9b4HfUhg

That’s a very weak argument. The “numbers went up” from single digits to 34, from a single outbreak that is actively being traced.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#348

Post by School-Cotton »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #202
LatteLazy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the UK had the same level of government as Melbourne and Singapore and Japan and South Korea and New Zealand and all the other places that did that...

I'm not sure that's completely fair. Countries vary so much that putting it down to "the government" ignores all the other factors. You're examples are all on the southern hemisphere, with mostly nice weather where people spend more time outside. General population health also has a massive effect. Here in the UK we are a nation of overweight old people, but fat-shaming is a thing so that's only going to get worse.

Agree with you in principle, except that Japan and Korea are at temperate latitudes in the northern hemisphere.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#349

Post by spoopyskelly »

jonplackett wrote: post #222
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

Also in London and 100% agree. I’ve barely been to a shop in 8 months because of this. For some reason we can manage to prevent drunk agro people entering a club with the wrong shoes, but 8 months into a pandemic we can’t make people wear a bloody mask? It’s insane. The government are partly to blame for making rules so haphazardly that even someone like me who reads EVERYTHING and wants to do the right thing 100% of…

> Also in London and 100% agree. I’ve barely been to a shop in 8 months because of this.

You should go to a shrink.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#350

Post by School-Cotton »

robocat wrote: post #225
etherealmachine wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out that US states aren't allowed to run a deficit, while countries are, so I mostly agree with this but this hamstrings states like Oregon who aren't allowed to provide relief for strict measures through debt. Also Oregonians would have to still contribute to the Federal government via taxes, essentially stealing more money from this plan.

Excuses. If the state really wants to do something, they can. It is just a question of the costs. NZ is not a state, but instead has a precarious relationship with the USA and other countries, which can ban-hammer us for things it really shouldn’t have any say in. A better example: “Since Canberra pointedly demanded an investigation into the origins and spread of the coronavirus, the number of Aussie businesses being…

AFAIK there is no legal mechanism for a US state to close its borders to other states. Regulating interstate travel is a purely federal matter.
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