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Being kind to others is good for your health

bbc.com

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Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#101

Post by morlockabove »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #79
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started counting the number of qualifying words, even in the linked studies, and then just gave up. Is human behavior truly so opaque that experiments cannot be designed that conclusively determine specific causation?

When faced with a choice between: - causality is less widely applicable than we like to think - our behavior is more complex than we like to think I'm more inclined to doubt causality. Not that it's not a useful framework in general, but that is less useful when applied by humans to humans regarding human constructs like kindness.

What does that even mean? What's the difference between A and B? I assume You don't think a spirit comes down and mediates inter-human interactions- they're not beyond physics- but rather that they're "beyond causality" as in 'normal' models don't have as much predictive power as you'd hope? But if it's that, then I don't see a practical difference between both choices.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#102

Post by bitexploder »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49

The only issue that I have, is that so many people (in my industry/nation/orbit) mistake kindness for weakness. I live in New York, which has a basic culture of "hyper aggressiveness." It isn't "rudeness," as so many people like to think of New Yorkers. They can be aggressively kind and generous. They are just aggressive. I'm also in the tech industry, which seems to have a very aggressive and competitive culture. It…

I tend to be very direct day to day. I think kindness doesn’t have to be in personal interactions, especially in a business context. I’m perfectly polite, but also very honest. I still use empathy to understand where people are coming from. You have to learn to give unconditionally without becoming a doormat. It’s tricky. I think you have to be purposeful with how you give to others. I also help people out and do my best to be kind in my private life (charity, supporting local food banks, etc). I think you can generalize this kindness is healthy thing way to far. For me the reward is helping people and making their lives better. In a business context I think your examples are very different from the more intrinsically rewarding giving and kindness.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#103

Post by rhencke »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #65
iamcreasy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they start trying to "game" me. Can you elaborate on it? I don't have much experience interacting with people.

It can take many forms. Folks each have their own "schtick," but it's what they are after that matters. 1) Money 2) Property They want me to give them money or goods. 3) Prestige They want me to feed a need for prestige. This can be as simple as agreeing with them in public, an endorsement or referral, or a requirement for some kind of submissive fawning. I started to write up a detailed description of how this can h…

I have a book I'd like to recommend, that has helped me, in growing up around aggressive and manipulative people, learn to both identify these behaviors in others as well as learn tools for calmly and clearly enforcing personal boundaries, even in the face of the other side throwing temper tantrums or bullying. Can send it to your contact info, if it's something that'd interest you.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#104

Post by rhencke »

ohyes wrote: post #86
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can take many forms. Folks each have their own "schtick," but it's what they are after that matters. 1) Money 2) Property They want me to give them money or goods. 3) Prestige They want me to feed a need for prestige. This can be as simple as agreeing with them in public, an endorsement or referral, or a requirement for some kind of submissive fawning. I started to write up a detailed description of how this can h…

> I have spent my entire adult life amongst some very aggressive and manipulative people, and keeping a good relationship with them, while gently enforcing personal boundaries, has always been a challenge. Okay, I’ll bite, why would you keep people like this around you? It sounds unpleasant.

You don't always get a choice.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#105

Post by momokoko »

morlockabove wrote: post #99
momokoko wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely think Europeans and others from homogeneous or smaller countries struggle to understand the variety and diversity of culture of the United States.

In europe, the surrounding countries are your equivalent to the different states in the us

That isn’t really accurate. There is much more diversity in individual states depending on where you are than in most European countries.

That statement is kind of what I mean. I don’t think most people outside, and to some extent inside the US, appreciate how much diversity of culture exists in the US.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#106

Post by morlockabove »

bumby wrote: post #64
danenania wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been studied in game theory terms. The best strategy seems to be to give people the benefit of the doubt initially, being kind and altruistic without reservation. But as soon as they don’t respond in kind, you update your strategy immediately and stop extending any generosity beyond baseline courtesy. The ball is in their court now. If they switch from selfishness to altruism, then you can match them. Otherw…

If you’re applying game theory here, I’m curious what the objective function would be? (What are you trying to maximize/minimize?) I think a potential flaw is assuming people are static beings. Consider if you passed me shortly after my dog died...I may not be in a mental state to even notice you said anything. If we passed weeks or months later I could be in a completely different state but we’re still not connectin…

You're just playing tit-for-tat. The main benefit it extreme simplicity- in principle, one bit of memory per person, and one if-then decision. And it performs very well in iterated prisoner's games.

Yes, everyone has a complex inner history blah blah blah. There's 6 billion people, and you're not going to give equal attention to all of them, so you need different approaches. Plus, explicitly playing tit-for-tat keeps you from being emotionally gamed as easily.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#107

Post by anordin95 »

marta_morena_9 wrote: post #66

These studies are always funny. So what this is trying to tell us is: Volunteering boosts your health, while the data only provides us with "volunteers are generally in better health". Now this study "tried" to adjust to that by some filtering, but this is still a pretty big leap. Essentially what they would need to do is this: Have one group of people who "actively" is kind to people, i.e. they actually act on their…

I agree that some of the examples are a bit fluffy, but later in the article, they mention a much stronger study! They cite an example of high school students being split into a control and treatment group for tutoring students with a clearly observable output based on biological data.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#108

Post by [deleted] »

marta_morena_9 wrote: post #66

These studies are always funny. So what this is trying to tell us is: Volunteering boosts your health, while the data only provides us with "volunteers are generally in better health". Now this study "tried" to adjust to that by some filtering, but this is still a pretty big leap. Essentially what they would need to do is this: Have one group of people who "actively" is kind to people, i.e. they actually act on their…

[deleted]

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#109

Post by morlockabove »

bumby wrote: post #90
danenania wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to maximize how much of your social time and energy is spent on mutually rewarding interactions and relationships relative to one-sided or exploitative interactions and relationships. A constraint is wanting to remain open to potentially rewarding new relationships (so not simply closing yourself off to people who aren't already in your circle). Another constraint is remaining flexible for when people upd…

While I can understand your perspective and probably would completely agree in the past, it still strikes me as rooted in a transactional expectation. “I did something so now it’s incumbent on you to do something.” My definition of compassion doesn’t encompass giving compassion only if I have the promise of receiving it in return. I also think you can be non-transactional while still having boundaries. Not saying hi…

t4t comes from the prisoner's game, where the choices are 'cooperate' or 'fuck the other person over for your own gain', so that sets the mindset the strategy is meant for.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#110

Post by ummonk »

slx26 wrote: post #48

When you are kind to others, that tends to create a connection and a shared space with others. You belong more. But what if you only make anonymous donations, or help others in ways that are "kind" but do not allow others to connect with you? What's the contribution of kindness as "morally positive actions", and the contribution of kindness as a "social(-izing) activity"?

Yeah, I suspect most of the benefits come from socializing with people who're nice to you, which being kind to others tends to result in, unless you're bad at avoiding abusive jerks.
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