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London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

bloomberg.com

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Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#211

Post by standardUser »

paulnechifor wrote: post #206
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to why you're not wearing a mask. I haven't worn a mask twice. Once because I forgot it and once because I just forgot to put it on. If "I don't have one" isn't an acceptable excuse what am I supposed to do: produce one out of thin air? It's not like they give out free ones if you forget. There are so many signs now that they're basically invisible. If I'm fined for not we…

"It's not like they give out free ones if you forget."

Why the hell not? Seems like the very first thing they should be doing.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#212

Post by dillondoyle »

edh649 wrote: post #134

For those (like me) who are looking for some more details of this new strain, I found 2 papers from the `COVID-19 Genomics Consortium UK (CoG-UK)` of great interest. It seems like the prime reasons for concern are increased frequency of mutations, increased proportion of cases, and possible change in immune response > Several aspects of this cluster are noteworthy for epidemiological and biological reasons and we rep…

Does anyone have insight on how much / specific changes in the spike protein would be needed to render the mRNA vaccines - which to my understanding create only those spikes - would be render less effective or not effective?

Is that a concern here?

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#213

Post by throwaway2245 »

mejutoco wrote: post #153
user-the-name wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parroting Christopher Hitchens: what is presented without proof can be dismissed without proof This is nonsense that assumes an antagonistic purpose to a discussion, and not actually an attempt to reach a higher understanding.

Isn‘t this the burden of proof under a different name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

Is this a thing that is discussed in philosophy, except that Christopher Hitchens recently claimed it to be?

A burden of proof applies to law, by convention, but not to the truth of a situation.

If I say "513x217=111321", it's true whether I prove it to you or not. My statement of it does not obligate me to prove it.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#214

Post by jibbit »

bsdz wrote: post #151
LatteLazy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFL Rail, the Eastern half, Romford, Chadwell Heath etc. To be fair, it got better on the central line. This was mid day not commuter rush. I do think East London is pretty poor at compliance culturally...

This is my observation too. Compliance varies across different parts of London. I was quite surprised to be the only person wearing a mask in a busy Tesco Local in East London several weeks after they were first mandated. In comparison, in far South East London it's unusual to see someone without a mask shopping.

The train i catch in SE London is travelling from tier 3 (Kent) to tier 2 (tiers as of the last few weeks). Despite travel out of a tier 3 are being 'advised against', the train is busy, 1/3 of people not wearing a mask, 1/3 not wearing it correctly, all the windows closed because it's 'cold'.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#215

Post by standardUser »

dehrmann wrote: post #93
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

Masks might slow it, but they're everywhere in the Bay Area, and cases are rising faster than ever, and we're setting new records for new cases, so "just wear a mask in public" isn't enough.

"so "just wear a mask in public" isn't enough."

Did someone claim it was? The name of the game is and has always been suppressing the transmission rate of the virus. Masks are a low impact way to help a little bit towards that goal, nothing more.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#216

Post by AndrewDavis »

paulnechifor wrote: post #206
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to why you're not wearing a mask. I haven't worn a mask twice. Once because I forgot it and once because I just forgot to put it on. If "I don't have one" isn't an acceptable excuse what am I supposed to do: produce one out of thin air? It's not like they give out free ones if you forget. There are so many signs now that they're basically invisible. If I'm fined for not we…

Offer you one and then fine you. Seriously, don't forget and if you're forgetful then prepare early

I have one in my car, a spare in my backpack, keep one in my jacket pocket, and a cheap disposable in my wallet folded up. That way if I forget, I'll have one.

My city in Australia had a grace period for everyone to get a mask. After that a lot of fines were handed out.

Without fines I doubt we'd have seen compliance anywhere near as high because there are a lot of people who don't want to wear them but do because they fear the fine.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#217

Post by toast0 »

makomk wrote: post #157
pjc50 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. We could have chosen to be an island, but that would have meant quarantining business travel.

It'd also have meant severing food supply chains (and probably also medical supply chains and a bunch of others). The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers. Ending that would make Brexit look like a walk in the park by comparison. Also, you've got to remember that the time period during which the UK would've had to do…

> The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers.

I'm not familiar with freight in Europe, so please excuse the diversion.

They drive freight vehicles onto the Eurotunnel Shuttle or on ferries? I'm guessing this isn't containerized freight, which would seem to make sense to transfer to freight rail (at least to cross the channel).

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#218

Post by happymellon »

paulnechifor wrote: post #206
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to why you're not wearing a mask. I haven't worn a mask twice. Once because I forgot it and once because I just forgot to put it on. If "I don't have one" isn't an acceptable excuse what am I supposed to do: produce one out of thin air? It's not like they give out free ones if you forget. There are so many signs now that they're basically invisible. If I'm fined for not we…

> If "I don't have one" isn't an acceptable excuse what am I supposed to do

How is it that after nearly 10 months of this would you not have a mask?

Do you also think that "sorry officer, I didn't realise that getting completely sloshed and then driving was illegal, what am I supposed to to? Suddenly sober up?"

> If I'm fined for not wearing it I'll stop wearing it entirely.

This makes absolutely no sense.

So you want to be fined daily because you got fined once for not wearing a mask during a pandemic?

And people don't understand why it's spreading so much.

That's like saying

> I was fined for dangerous driving, and because of this I'm now only going to drive on the wrong side of the road.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#219

Post by LatteLazy »

anigbrowl wrote: post #205
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to why you're not wearing a mask. Is it policy for the officers to pull one out and say 'you do now'?

Not that I saw.

Supermarkets do that sometimes at the door and good for them. But at this point, I'm tired of people "forgetting". I think it's time for actual enforcement.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#220

Post by randomsearch »

nicoburns wrote: post #203
randomsearch wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely being used as an excuse. The whole country’s restrictions have been changed whilst the “new strain” is focused in London. Regardless of the recent uptick in London, the rules needed to be changed, everyone knew it, Boris didn’t do it, and then to mask another U turn they seized on this. Chris Witty said today the idea that the new strain is more contagious is “just a theory”.

It is being used as an excuse. But I wouldn't go as far as to think that means it isn't real. It's difficult to explain the numbers in Kent going up through lockdown and Tier 3 restrictions otherwise.

I didn't say it wasn't real.
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