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Being kind to others is good for your health

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41–50 of 277 posts

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#41
post #28
post #10

in theory this looks good. reality is a bit different. I constantly have problems with my left and right neighbor (middle of pandemic and this a hole is doing a barbecue with loud music since yesterday) about their lack of consideration (this in my parents house, where I am right now). In my apartment is no different... loud music, stumping on the floor... that kind of problem you have on a building. my father have a…

This is accurate. More often than not, trying to do something good for others will end up making you feel like an idiot. For the person on the receiving end, you are a jackpot. Instead of being shown gratitude, you're likely to be exploited. But then again, would it really be a genuine gesture on the giver's end if they were to filter based on the receiver's character or whether they will be grateful for it? The posi…

> This is accurate. More often than not, trying to do something good for others will end up making you feel like an idiot. For the person on the receiving end, you are a jackpot. Instead of being shown gratitude, you're likely to be exploited.

Helping others doesn’t mean you have to set yourself up to be a sucker. Which you kinda point out when you about volunteering. But IMHO in any space our own judgement is still required and essential.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#42
post #28
post #10

in theory this looks good. reality is a bit different. I constantly have problems with my left and right neighbor (middle of pandemic and this a hole is doing a barbecue with loud music since yesterday) about their lack of consideration (this in my parents house, where I am right now). In my apartment is no different... loud music, stumping on the floor... that kind of problem you have on a building. my father have a…

This is accurate. More often than not, trying to do something good for others will end up making you feel like an idiot. For the person on the receiving end, you are a jackpot. Instead of being shown gratitude, you're likely to be exploited. But then again, would it really be a genuine gesture on the giver's end if they were to filter based on the receiver's character or whether they will be grateful for it? The posi…

Okay, there is a major definition problem here.

Kindness can and should come with boundaries. No one is entitled to your time or energy. Choosing to spend that energy on another person, without thought of reward, is a form of kindness.

We can and probably should be polite to people by default. That is a way of showing kindness. If the other person decides to be a blackhole, leave them. If they are harming someone, you are free to (and probably should) warn other people.

Kindness does not require you let people take advantage of you.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#43
Well, yes, no, and maybe.

It depends on the giver and on the receiver; and therefore how healthy the relationship/exchange is. Let me explain:

* if the receiver is a narcissist/sociopath, for starter they won't value the "gift" received, nothing will ever be enough, and they always seem to attract plenty fo givers

* if the giver had the disease to please whereas their own worth is depended on being told "good job" or similar, it will eventually deteriorate since in the mind of the giver, what they give will always be > what they receive and won't end well.

* Then there's victimhood chic, where people feel that they need help on everything 24/7 and becomes a co-dependent relationship between them and - slowly but steadily - the entire world; and rapidly reaches a point of impasse since the needs keep escalating and the help keep diminishing

Buddha had the 4-part solution:

1. Help yourself

2. Climb a mountain, tell nobody

3. More suffering is needed

4. The enemy is a wonderful teacher

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#44
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …a lot of technology enables us to be alone or at least not in direct contact with others. What I've seen during the pandemic is that technology enables my family to be in direct contact (if not physically) with others for most of our waking time. Certainly, my kids spend more time with their friends virtually than I did with mine physically as a child. Does the physical part matter? The article references a study…

Reality is constructed of information states if we really want to be honest with ourselves. There is never really a _true_ information state. Charles Sanders Peirce called the world we build a 'phaneron,' the information state as presented by the senses. Everyone's eyes are a blurry figment of what the true photonic field is. Same with touch when it comes to surfaces and well, all the senses. And those senses degrade…

Our bodies are composed of information too.

LOL basically you have to accept that our current scientific understanding is that our minds are embodied constructs (your mind doesn’t exist in any meaningful way without your brain, which is a physical organ and fundamentally and essentially integrated with the body).

Thought itself is embodied.

Your argument proves the necessity of physical contact for human health.

Our biologies - our brains and bodies - require the information (chemical impulses, electrical impulses, etc) provided by our senses when embodied physical touch, sight, sound, the body heat of another person, etc, occur.

Unless a perfect simulacra of physical human interaction (including the ability for us to move our own physical bodies) was created, there will always be a lack of the information (consider the chemicals released by exercise, by a hug, and impact of said chemicals on the brain, the combination of chemicals from eating with the chemicals of being close to someone you like) which our embodied minds require for health.

You’d have to put a brain in a vat and feed it every single electrical impulse and chemical it would normally receive from being part of the body.

Otherwise you lose information and god knows what happens.

I don’t deny the value of interaction via the Internet, etc.

To imply it is anywhere near replacing the information density of embodied physical contact is just a sign of a lack of information - education - about all this stuff.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#45
post #20
post #10

in theory this looks good. reality is a bit different. I constantly have problems with my left and right neighbor (middle of pandemic and this a hole is doing a barbecue with loud music since yesterday) about their lack of consideration (this in my parents house, where I am right now). In my apartment is no different... loud music, stumping on the floor... that kind of problem you have on a building. my father have a…

do you see how the negative attitude you carry is eating you alive? be more like your dad

That crosses into personal attack, which is not an effective way to advocate for kindness, and also not allowed on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#46
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality is constructed of information states if we really want to be honest with ourselves. There is never really a _true_ information state. Charles Sanders Peirce called the world we build a 'phaneron,' the information state as presented by the senses. Everyone's eyes are a blurry figment of what the true photonic field is. Same with touch when it comes to surfaces and well, all the senses. And those senses degrade…

I understand the idea, but sadly we're tied to these primitive bodies that have their own needs and urges. Perhaps in the future we will learn to shut off the primal instincts, but for now, it seems to do more bad than good if we ignore them.

Agreed. Want to gently critique:

> sadly we're tied to these primitive bodies

Our bodies (and the sensations and emotions produced by them) are not primitive. They’re super sophisticated and we are nowhere near being able to replicate them.

There’s interesting work btw on the fundamentally intertwined nature of emotion and “rational” thought.

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#47
post #10

in theory this looks good. reality is a bit different. I constantly have problems with my left and right neighbor (middle of pandemic and this a hole is doing a barbecue with loud music since yesterday) about their lack of consideration (this in my parents house, where I am right now). In my apartment is no different... loud music, stumping on the floor... that kind of problem you have on a building. my father have a…

This has been studied in game theory terms.

The best strategy seems to be to give people the benefit of the doubt initially, being kind and altruistic without reservation. But as soon as they don’t respond in kind, you update your strategy immediately and stop extending any generosity beyond baseline courtesy. The ball is in their court now. If they switch from selfishness to altruism, then you can match them. Otherwise, don’t let yourself be exploited.

I’ve found this approach has simplified many social decisions for me. Even things like whether to say hi to a neighbor passing on the sidewalk. I used to not always be sure of the best way to handle these situations. If you give a hearty greeting and are ignored, you feel lame and rejected. If you ignore them and it turns out they are friendly, they could see you as unfriendly, or they might also be on the fence, waiting to see what you do, and by ignoring them you miss out on establishing a friendship that could be valuable to both of you in the long run.

Now it’s easy: I say hi the first time I see someone and treat them warmly. If they aren’t friendly back, I don’t worry about it. I simply ignore them now unless they make an effort to change the dynamic (happens more than you might think, actually).

This way you don’t miss out on the good people, don’t sweat the bad/manipulative people, and remain flexible in case someone was just feeling shy or having a bad day. Game theory ftw!

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#48
When you are kind to others, that tends to create a connection and a shared space with others. You belong more.

But what if you only make anonymous donations, or help others in ways that are "kind" but do not allow others to connect with you? What's the contribution of kindness as "morally positive actions", and the contribution of kindness as a "social(-izing) activity"?

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#49
The only issue that I have, is that so many people (in my industry/nation/orbit) mistake kindness for weakness.

I live in New York, which has a basic culture of "hyper aggressiveness." It isn't "rudeness," as so many people like to think of New Yorkers. They can be aggressively kind and generous. They are just aggressive.

I'm also in the tech industry, which seems to have a very aggressive and competitive culture.

It doesn't stop me from being kind and courteous, but it gets grating.

My experience is that, when someone mistakes courtesy for weakness, they start trying to "game" me. I put up with it for a bit, until they push too far.

Then the till gets slammed on their fingers.

They get very, very upset. Far more upset than if I had just disabused them early on.

I'm learning to enforce my boundaries earlier. It doesn't make me as popular, but it also prevents those "psycho freakouts."

Re: Being kind to others is good for your health

#50
post #48

When you are kind to others, that tends to create a connection and a shared space with others. You belong more. But what if you only make anonymous donations, or help others in ways that are "kind" but do not allow others to connect with you? What's the contribution of kindness as "morally positive actions", and the contribution of kindness as a "social(-izing) activity"?

With anonymous kindness you relinquish any external reward. Only the most fortunate or humble can afford that.
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