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California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

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Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#161

Post by seanmcdirmid »

konjin wrote: post #65
todd8 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal government does something worse, you pay federal income tax on all income no matter where it is made and what country you are living in (with the exception of some deductions for income taxes paid to other countries one is living in). Other countries only make you pay taxes for income generated there. Even if you give up US citizenship, which requires something like paying taxes on all unrealized gains an…

Triple citizen: first 100k is tax free. You still need to lodge US taxes which is a huge pain. There are reciprocal tax agreements with most of the developed world though. The only time this bit me was when I was looking at a very well paying job in Dubai: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/international-businesses/unit... >And good luck getting back in for a visit after relinquishing your citizenship. Sadly all too true…

The reciprocal agreements are usually for social security and the like. You can still take the foreign tax credit even if the USA doesn’t have an agreement with said country. You get screwed in low tax/high fee countries (like Singapore) and have to start leaning on your housing deduction.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#162

Post by bradleyjg »

GhostVII wrote: post #96

Personally I disagree with the whole idea of wealth taxes, you should be taxed when you do things, not taxed just because you own something worth money. I should be able to go live in the woods alone and not have the government take some percent of my net worth just because I exist. I mean I don't have a tonne of sympathy for people with tens of millions of net worth, but it just seems wrong in principle. If I start…

> passed down through my family

I could go either way with wealth taxes—-there are efficiency and services arguments that go beyond just real property—-but I have zero problem with inheritance taxes.

You want a Van Gogh or McLaren, you go create value just as your deceased would-be benefactor did.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#163

Post by lifeformed »

GavinMcG wrote: post #118
ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it’s not totally absurd to think you owe something to a country whose citizenship you continue to benefit from Yes it is honestly. The US is the only G7 county (and one of the only countries worldwide) to engage in extraterritorial taxation. It is absurd. If you are gaining from services in that country, you should pay taxes to that country. If you have moved abroad and aren't gaining from any services if that…

> Because you are effectively not a member of that community anymore People have the choice of giving up their U.S. citizenship. > Yet simply to retain the right to return the US at some point, they must pay taxes every year in the middle? Yes? Or do we allow everyone who isn't participating in our society as a citizen would to come and go as they please?

But why not have that expectation of literally any other country in the world? Except for the US and Eretria.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#164

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

tryptophan wrote: post #125
sys_64738 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not long until TX is flipped to the Democrats. It's coming.

The state that voted for Trump with a 5.5% margin? Dems will lose the entire midwest before Texas flips.

Yeah, these foreigners (Texas is my country) are moving to the central metros (Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio) which are blue anyway.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#165

Post by tsimionescu »

amscanne wrote: post #131
tsimionescu wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is exactly their reasoning - not some fantasy of balancing the budget by taxing the rich, but a rationally supported (in history and economic theory) belief that reducing the wealth gap increases economic productivity. Wealth taxes (if they can be enforced, which is a significant problem) are especially powerful in this area, as they reduce the incentive for rent seeking behavior - it stops people from simpl…

No billionaire is just sitting on their money. It’s certainly tied up in assets or being actively managed. I don’t see in what universe a wealth tax could be effective, given that people can simply move. Wouldn’t it just cause large-scale capital flight, as it did in France?

> No billionaire is just sitting on their money. It’s certainly tied up in assets or being actively managed.

Not literally sitting on them, but they are certainly not spending anywhere near as much of their money as someone who makes ~1M$ a year. A large part of their wealth is usually tied up in long term investments such as property or bonds, where it is safe but not productive.

And as I said, enforcement is a real problem, capital flight being a possible consequence. I don't know exactly what the solution is, but surely there is some better balance to be struck than today. Especially if the US government wanted to - they have enough financial and diplomatic power to enforce this type of tax almost world wide, even if California or France don't.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#166

Post by civilized »

skinnymuch wrote: post #63
civilized wrote: post #21

> IF YOU SO MUCH AS SET FOOT IN OUR STATE WHILE HAVING LIQUID ASSETS WE WILL NEVER STOP HUNTING YOU k, very normal stuff, carry on

Interesting that they aren’t saying that anything close to your sarcastic quote.

Ah, my bad, yes being taxed for ten years because you were in a state for two months is nothing like what I said

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#167

Post by 762236 »

This is unenforceable. California has no Texas Rangers that can hunt you down in other states. California has no standing in another state's courts for collecting this tax. And that's a good thing too. Consider child-support payments --- they require states to cooperate. But you may never be able to enter California again.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#169

Post by not2b »

This was a proposal from back in August, and the election of Joe Biden probably means it won't happen. Why does that matter? Because Trump was treating California like an enemy country and trying to destroy it, starving it of resources even though California taxpayers (individuals and companies) pay far more to the federal government than any other state does.

It would be better to do a wealth tax at the federal level. It really isn't conceptually different from a property tax on real estate, it just applies to all wealth.

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