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California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

wsj.com

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Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#81

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

jhfdbkofdcho wrote: post #60
herbst wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt the us taxing basically everyone even if they moved somewhere else years ago?

As a rough approximation, if you’re a US citizen, then You must file a US income tax return. The US taxes your worldwide income regardless of where it’s earned. BUT under most circumstances you would get a credit against what you owe the US for what you pay the country in which you earned the money and also wanted to tax you (no double taxation in theory) It’s kind of a pain for someone living in say Kenya which does…

IIRC that's true up to a certain $ limit. (Maybe around $120k of income?) After that it's double taxed (I think)

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#82

Post by ahelwer »

BurningFrog wrote: post #25
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is insane. It is also insane that the system is so rigged in favor of wealth accumulation. An insane solution to an insane problem. I pay a lot in taxes, and I am good with that. I also give a fair bit away. The truth is I should make less, as should you.

> The truth is I should make less, as should you. That some people make a lot of money is a good thing. The bad thing is those who make too too little money.

Those things are linked. In our system, some people making a whole lot of money is predicated on others making too little money. I don't mean this in the zero sum sense. I mean that by far the most common way to make a lot of money in this country is by exploiting people.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#83

Post by nradov »

josho wrote: post #72
caseysoftware wrote: post #26

I'm not sure what the problem is. When Democrat supporters demand more more more via the politicians who promise more more more, where did they think the money would come from? Believe it or not, the bottom ~50% don't have enough money to tax. The next 30-40% have some but not enough to raise enough money to help. The taxes have to be focused on the top 10% and more likely the top 1-3% to raise enough to meet these d…

Not a Californian, but what is the more that is being asked of? Are you aware that top tax rates are a fraction of what they were decades ago? Perhaps, the more accurate lens to view things is that the wealthy/business has lobbied for less and less.

Top federal tax rates have been reduced, but there hasn't been any major reduction of top California state tax rates.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#84

Post by bgentry »

post_break wrote: post #59
ryanmarsh wrote: post #15

Great way to help further diversify the Texas economy. I want to thank the Californians who voted in these politicians.

The problem most Texans see is they flea California, realize it’s different, and vote for the same stuff they had there. A lot of Texans do not want California transplants. Just like how Montana doesn’t want Texans.

Or perhaps they left California for Texas because they didn’t approve of the policies that have made CA a worse place to live, but their vote is in the minority in CA and so they can’t realistically do anything about how broken and dysfunctional the government and policies there are?

Speaking as a lifelong Californian who just moved to Austin, and has had to explain this to the few people who espouse the "don't turn Texas into California" trope.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#85

Post by skinnymuch »

threatofrain wrote: post #71
skinnymuch wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP says people are moving into Netherlands. That’s effort. Not just not moving out.

I'm not sure those execs getting citizenships are actually moving in as opposed to buying an expensive property and making some kind of investment.

Ah. Do they not have to pay Dutch taxes then? Aside from property related ones?

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#87

Post by scrose »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #70
jhfdbkofdcho wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a rough approximation, if you’re a US citizen, then You must file a US income tax return. The US taxes your worldwide income regardless of where it’s earned. BUT under most circumstances you would get a credit against what you owe the US for what you pay the country in which you earned the money and also wanted to tax you (no double taxation in theory) It’s kind of a pain for someone living in say Kenya which does…

How do I benefit from a country while not being in it?

Well, in the US, one benefit is being able to freely travel to many other countries without needing to go through a months long visa application process.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#88

Post by ryan_j_naughton »

jhfdbkofdcho wrote: post #60
herbst wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt the us taxing basically everyone even if they moved somewhere else years ago?

As a rough approximation, if you’re a US citizen, then You must file a US income tax return. The US taxes your worldwide income regardless of where it’s earned. BUT under most circumstances you would get a credit against what you owe the US for what you pay the country in which you earned the money and also wanted to tax you (no double taxation in theory) It’s kind of a pain for someone living in say Kenya which does…

> but it’s not totally absurd to think you owe something to a country whose citizenship you continue to benefit from

Yes it is honestly. The US is the only G7 county (and one of the only countries worldwide) to engage in extraterritorial taxation.

It is absurd. If you are gaining from services in that country, you should pay taxes to that country. If you have moved abroad and aren't gaining from any services if that country, you should not. Because you are effectively not a member of that community anymore and should be contributing your taxes to another society. To even have to handle the double taxation accounting is ridiculous. It's that simple.

Does someone gain benefits of being an American even when not living in America? Potentially, but many of those benefits could be connected to more targeted taxes than simply worldwide income tax.

This is clearly not about justice and is instead about the long arm of the IRS seeking their pound of flesh anywhere they can get it.

I know Americans who left the US 40 years ago and have lived and become fully integrated citizens of other countries. Yet simply to retain the right to return the US at some point, they must pay taxes every year in the middle? And trying to give up their citizenship isn't that easy either.

If we want to prevent tax havens, I'm totally fine with that. Force sensible global tax regimes and prevent countries from being havens. But the solution isn't extraterritorial taxation.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#89

Post by est31 »

zbrozek wrote: post #28

Does anyone know the mechanism by which they can possibly make the out of state tax stick? If it doesn't, I'd probably move to the Midwest. If it does, there are other citizenships.

If you spend more than 60 days in the state, you spend that time while being accessible to state's law enforcement, e.g. for arrests. They could also seize properties held in California, or by Californian businesses. There aren't that many people who have more than 30m net worth. Enough for them to keep track on all of them. Thanks to Palantir et al this is easier than ever.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#90

Post by Metus »

throwaway2245 wrote: post #32

This proposal is 0.4% tax on wealth above $30m. The Dutch equivalent is 1.6% tax on wealth above €1m. The number of Ultra High Net Worth Individuals in the Netherlands is still increasing.

And the Swiss ask for 0.13% and 1.01% depending on the Canton, pension funds are exempt.
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