Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All • Hacker News Board

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#11

Post by ajkessler » Sat, May 14, 2011, 5:57 AM UTC

smallblacksun wrote: post #8

corin_ wrote: post #4

Another side to think about is how people want others to see them. I happily donate blood (in the UK, where there aren't options to get paid for doing this), but if they started paying a small amount, I would feel that, by going in, people would see me and think "he's so desperate for money that he's donating blood to earn some". Same thing, say, volunteering in a charity shop (which I haven't done for a few years, n…

Lawyers are the same way. They either charge normal rates or work pro-bono. They almost never work for a reduced rate.

Every firm I've worked for charges a variety of rates; they are absolutely negotiable. Charging less than your stated rate, particularly when you outline why you're charging that amount (as a favor, for a limited number of hours, for this case, etc.), isn't going to reduce your perceived value.

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#12

Post by ikono » Sat, May 14, 2011, 7:11 AM UTC

In one of my favorite TED Talks, Barry Schwartz talks about this among other things.

In it he tells a story about a study in Switzerland where a community was asked whether or not they would agree to a nuclear waste facility in their area. Amazingly 50% agreed, they then repeated the procedure but offered 6 weeks salary as well. This time only 25% agreed. He claims that as soon as the incentive is introduced people throw out their perceived responsibilities and instead focus on what is best for them. So instead of asking themselves whether or not they should, they ask themselves "is this a good deal for me".

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#13

Post by shrikant » Sat, May 14, 2011, 8:27 AM UTC

ikono wrote: post #12

In one of my favorite TED Talks, Barry Schwartz talks about this among other things. In it he tells a story about a study in Switzerland where a community was asked whether or not they would agree to a nuclear waste facility in their area. Amazingly 50% agreed, they then repeated the procedure but offered 6 weeks salary as well. This time only 25% agreed. He claims that as soon as the incentive is introduced people t…

Maybe they tell themselves, "If they have to offer money for something they're doing, maybe it isn't such a great thing thing after all."?

Especially if you're asking the same people, of which 50% agreed initially.

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#14

Post by cdesmar » Sat, May 14, 2011, 11:05 AM UTC

You are skipping an important step: prizes.

Free->prizes->paid.

Also things like free food, better internet, lab space are all great motivators. The message there is I can't afford to pay you what you're worth but I'll do what I can.

WinPhone7 has a great community in London and I know a lot of people who are starting to express interest because MS is giving out xboxes and free phones and buying beer.

$7/hr could have bought a lot of xboxes.

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#15

Post by lionhearted » Sat, May 14, 2011, 11:15 AM UTC

Starbucks cards are a way to hack this.

If you've got a limited budget and someone is putting in 5 hours of time for you and you give them $20, they might be unhappy as mentioned in the article.

$20 Starbucks card? Sweet. Keeps it a social norm thing, even though it's almost a cash equivalent.

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#16

Post by JoachimSchipper » Sat, May 14, 2011, 12:38 PM UTC

lionhearted wrote: post #15

Starbucks cards are a way to hack this. If you've got a limited budget and someone is putting in 5 hours of time for you and you give them $20, they might be unhappy as mentioned in the article. $20 Starbucks card? Sweet. Keeps it a social norm thing, even though it's almost a cash equivalent.

From http://www.mashmarketing.co.uk/blog/2010/02/12/friday-inspir..., via an old HN post(?):

"Get creative with compensation–use the iPhone Payment Plan. Imagine you’re a highly-trained software engineer. A crazy guy with a “startup” (i.e. me) approaches you about doing some work. Scenario #1: Dude, I’ll pay you $2,000 for 150 hours of work…3-4 months from now. Scenario #2: Dude, promise to build this and I’ll give you an iPhone right now [and] pay your phone bill. [...] We tried both approaches [...] and [...] Scenario #2 [...] actually worked out a lot better. There’s something about the psychology of receiving a cool gadget that doesn’t quite equal out to the cash equivalent. Also, paying up for the iPhone upfront fosters trust, which in turn boosts productivity."

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#17

Post by Panos » Sat, May 14, 2011, 3:43 PM UTC

corin_ wrote: post #4

Another side to think about is how people want others to see them. I happily donate blood (in the UK, where there aren't options to get paid for doing this), but if they started paying a small amount, I would feel that, by going in, people would see me and think "he's so desperate for money that he's donating blood to earn some". Same thing, say, volunteering in a charity shop (which I haven't done for a few years, n…

Spot on. It is actually one of the explanations in the Gneezy and Rustichini paper: "consider the practice of paying back a small amount for recycling a soft drink bottle, which is common in many European countries. Anecdotal evidence suggests that people are less willing to recycle when this small compensation is offered, than they are in places where no money is offered, and failure to recycle is simply considered bad behavior. It is unlikely that the amount offered is considered insulting. A different explanation in this case might be that people are afraid of looking ‘‘cheap’’ for making the effort of recycling to collect the small amount."

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#18

Post by chopsueyar » Sat, May 14, 2011, 4:58 PM UTC

JoachimSchipper wrote: post #16

lionhearted wrote: post #15

Starbucks cards are a way to hack this. If you've got a limited budget and someone is putting in 5 hours of time for you and you give them $20, they might be unhappy as mentioned in the article. $20 Starbucks card? Sweet. Keeps it a social norm thing, even though it's almost a cash equivalent.

From http://www.mashmarketing.co.uk/blog/2010/02/12/friday-inspir... , via an old HN post(?): "Get creative with compensation–use the iPhone Payment Plan. Imagine you’re a highly-trained software engineer. A crazy guy with a “startup” (i.e. me) approaches you about doing some work. Scenario #1: Dude, I’ll pay you $2,000 for 150 hours of work…3-4 months from now. Scenario #2: Dude, promise to build this and I’ll give…

Plus, not having to directly deal with Verizon or AT&T is an added benefit.

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#19

Post by corin_ » Sat, May 14, 2011, 5:06 PM UTC

Panos wrote: post #17

corin_ wrote: post #4

Another side to think about is how people want others to see them. I happily donate blood (in the UK, where there aren't options to get paid for doing this), but if they started paying a small amount, I would feel that, by going in, people would see me and think "he's so desperate for money that he's donating blood to earn some". Same thing, say, volunteering in a charity shop (which I haven't done for a few years, n…

Spot on. It is actually one of the explanations in the Gneezy and Rustichini paper: "consider the practice of paying back a small amount for recycling a soft drink bottle, which is common in many European countries. Anecdotal evidence suggests that people are less willing to recycle when this small compensation is offered, than they are in places where no money is offered, and failure to recycle is simply considered…

Interestingly, in my travels I can only recall coming across that system once, it was at a hotel in Germany and I was quite young, somethiong like 12-15 years old.

Now days I recycle at home purely for the environment, but I don't think I cared much back then - whereas, with a vending machine that paid out when you returned a glass bottle, young me was very pleased to be able to do that, to help pay for the next bottle.

Re: Pay Enough or Don't Pay at All

#20

Post by diiq » Sat, May 14, 2011, 6:12 PM UTC

It's probably important to remember that money is not the only way to pay people --- I work at a job with low pay, but completely flexible hours, and for me, that benefit is worth twice the salary.