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It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

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Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#111

Post by oblio »

zamfi wrote: post #100
jancsika wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So $25 million on a decentralized system to spread the idea not to wear a mask or social distance during a pandemic, and another $25 million on a vaccine.

You’re being downvoted presumably for snark, which as a lover of snark I can’t support. However, your point is also mislaid: there were plenty of anti-maskers at the time of the 1918 Influenza pandemic. Ignoring or selectively using facts to support the narrative you wish were true did not start with the internet!

> Ignoring or selectively using facts to support the narrative you wish were true did not start with the internet!

My guess is that those probably predate speech :-D

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#112

Post by renewiltord »

The problem is one of medical ethics in an unequal society. The problem is that there's a sum of money for which I would have taken the risk and got a vaccine in January and had exposure to the disease in February.

Everyone in society would have been better off if I had been permitted that. America could have paid me and 49 others a million dollars each and come out wayyy ahead (since direct exposure tests will yield results way faster). Then a 3 month safety protocol and we're off to the races.

But I can make that choice because I am comfortably above subsistence. If I do it, you know it's because it's a combination of bravado, bragging rights, and this money I could survive without.

But if you actually allow the market to price this, the real price for the tester is approximately $10 in sub-Saharan Africa, and we know he's on below subsistence and is really trading his body for another few days of life. We find that doing this is abhorrent.

An interesting effect that inequality prevents us from Pareto optimal actions and improving the human race as a whole.

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#113

Post by kmonsen »

coding123 wrote: post #107

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQ_Ef-OqrI India's death rate has been much lower than the US. Part of this is because they're already doing widespread cholecalciferol roll-out. If cholecalciferol is not on 2021's CDCs/FDA/AMA number one recommendation list for pre-Covid control, I will have considered the AMA a complete and utter failure in the united states. Edit: Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg

I don't know if that is conclusive.

First of all it seems unlikely people in India don't get enough vitamin D, it is a lot further to the south and inside the area that should have enough sun year round.

I don't think you can compare death rates in India and USA, the healthcare and accountability is just way different. Even though it is not great for the poorest ~50% in USA, it is really not good for the poorest ~90% in India. Those numbers are made up, but meant to illustrate that real healthcare in India is mostly for the wealthy.

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#114

Post by sjg007 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #102
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High lethality is often associated with reduced transmissibility. Which makes sense - dead people certainly aren't going to cough on you. In a Sci Fi movie maybe the virus has a long delay, you're infectious for a month with no symptoms, then drop dead in seconds. But in the real world that's less likely the more extreme it gets. One thing that did make this virus more dangerous was that many humans became infectious…

>> High lethality is often associated with reduced transmissibility. I think the scariest combo would be long incubation time + transmissibility while asymptomatic + high lethality when symptoms appear. This type of virus would spread far and wide before it’s detected, and would also be very deadly.

I mean HIV is this type of virus. It's not airborne though.

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#115

Post by jgalt212 »

fortran77 wrote: post #110
coding123 wrote: post #107

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQ_Ef-OqrI India's death rate has been much lower than the US. Part of this is because they're already doing widespread cholecalciferol roll-out. If cholecalciferol is not on 2021's CDCs/FDA/AMA number one recommendation list for pre-Covid control, I will have considered the AMA a complete and utter failure in the united states. Edit: Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg

Don't underestimate how much of the US's problem (and UK, Canada, etc) was caused by obesity, too. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/why-covid-19-more-de...

Perhaps, but I'm sure we'd figure out another way to justify The Fed gifting the investor class $2T.

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#116

Post by jnwatson »

causality0 wrote: post #6

I wonder if any, or if many, Moderna employees have been walking around off-the-books immunized since January. I know I would've been tempted.

They probably could have finagled themselves into a trial.

I know a friend that got the Moderna vaccine that way. Technically, it was double blind, but it is fairly obvious whether you got the real vaccine or not.

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#117

Post by [deleted] »

jgalt212 wrote: post #115
fortran77 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't underestimate how much of the US's problem (and UK, Canada, etc) was caused by obesity, too. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/why-covid-19-more-de...

Perhaps, but I'm sure we'd figure out another way to justify The Fed gifting the investor class $2T.

[deleted]

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#118

Post by lostlogin »

jayrot wrote: post #95
fnord77 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone talks about the death rate, but for survivors there's evidence of severe permanent damage in some cases.

Also the death rate as a catchall metric completely ignores people who here in absolutely critical, life-or-death condition but were only saved from death by incredible medical intervention and/or just pure luck.

Another terrible metric comes in here, money. What does the annual flu season cost versus the covid cost?

Money is a bad metric but it does boil things down to one measure. I’m sure these aren’t measured the same way but the effects haven’t been similar. Flu $90b per year versus the covid cost of $16t.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1885332

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771764

Re: It took two days to develop Moderna’s vaccine

#119

Post by lostlogin »

OJFord wrote: post #73
dontreact wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine has a partner who works for them. She said that employees don't get a free vaccine. Obviously take this rumor with a grain of salt.

A corporate gifting of one to every rank and file employee like some sort of morally questionable bonus is a bit different from, what I assume GP meant, folks in the lab actually working on it pricking themselves to test, or because they believe in it, can't resist, etc.

I think that there is a reasonable argument to be made that those making vaccines need to be immunised early. How early though?
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